published Wednesday, March 26th, 2014

Hobby Lobby

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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inquiringmind said...

How can an incorporated entity have a religious belief, it is a corporation not a person! It has no soul, can't go to heaven or hell, the whole thing is crazy Alice-in-wonderland thinking.

March 26, 2014 at 12:06 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

IT'S A GREAT IDEA

I think every employer should get to design employee health care coverage based on religious conviction. For instance, I don't believe in vaccines or blood transfusions so I'll have the insurance company drop those provisions. Since I don't believe in Science, it's not really a stretch to claim I don't believe in doctors or medicine or hospitals. If my workers get sick I'll just pray for them. Heck! I can drop health insurance entirely! Thank you, Hobby Lobby!

Of course, employees will whine about how health insurance is part of their compensation package, but screw that. A buck is a buck, and with the grace of god, the Supreme Court will let me off the hook.

I can't wait to institute mandatory Muslim prayers. Remember, corporations are people, my friend. Employees are not.

March 26, 2014 at 12:21 a.m.

Stupid liberals, arrogant. The owners are Christians, and they've chosen to operate as such. They're not open on Sunday either. It's their right, stupid.

March 26, 2014 at 12:26 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

For some legal details, inquirer, go to National Review online, or Human Events, current articles on this case.

Morally, if the owner, or even a shareholding majority, think the murder of little babies is evil, why force them to subsidize it? Workers can buy their own murderous drugs, or get jobs elsewhere.

Even in a free country, we don't need freedom to do what most people agree on. We need freedom to do something different, something most people disapprove of, or consider less than the best.

An article linked from NR said economies grow fastest where governments spend 26% of GNP. The US are spending about 39% right now (DC + state + local). For growth, cut government by a third. Jesus is libertarian. Repent or perish, as the Pope warned the mafia.

March 26, 2014 at 12:27 a.m.

How about a cartoon condemning the use of aborted babies as fuel to heat hospitals in the UK?

March 26, 2014 at 12:28 a.m.

Why did Bennett draw a woman reading the paper? I know, I know, let me guess, the "war on women".LOL If I own a company, and I want to run it per my religious beliefs, then I should be able to do it.

Just more attack on Christians. Libs fight tooth and nail for "gay rights", but are constantly trying the make Christians do what they strongly believe to be immoral. Double standard.

March 26, 2014 at 1:22 a.m.
bret said...

Christians, nor people of any other religion, do not have the right to operate by their own set of laws. That's why we don't have stonings as prescribed in the Bible. Also, this issue is about contraception, not abortion.

Jesus was a Liberal, not a Libertarian.

March 26, 2014 at 2:10 a.m.
fairmon said...

Where is the constitutional authority for a federal government to mandate that an employer provide a healthcare policy benefit? If there is a shortage of doctors will employers be required to find one or train their own?

Government intervention other than reasonable regulations has never worked and will never work in the market. No business can compete and is not likely to survive in the U.S. when required to operate like the government which many members of congress think they should.

March 26, 2014 at 4:52 a.m.
fairmon said...

Why is the sign up date not 5/15 enabling people to possibly use a tax refund to pay some of their healthcare premiums?

March 26, 2014 at 4:54 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

You lefties won't be happy till the gubmint has total say in everything we do. Let's bring on more regulations and mandates, yes?

March 26, 2014 at 7:29 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

Andy my boy, let's go find our sheets, torches, ropes and crosses!

March 26, 2014 at 8:30 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

Btw, do they have to offer healthcare insurance at all?

March 26, 2014 at 8:31 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

IQM says "Andy my boy, let's go find our sheets, torches, ropes and crosses!" who told you to say that, IQM? Totally irresponsible.

March 26, 2014 at 8:37 a.m.
tifosi said...

I heard a Muslim owned business wants to implement Sharia Law. Oh MY!!!

March 26, 2014 at 8:39 a.m.
alprova said...

Z-man wrote: "Stupid liberals, arrogant."

Stupid is as stupid does. I think it works for arrogance as well.

"The owners are Christians, and they've chosen to operate as such. They're not open on Sunday either."

Which is not the Sabbath day of the week.

"It's their right, stupid."

It's also their right to go out of business, when their employees jump to jobs that provide adequate health care coverage.

I wonder if they will stick to their guns then...

March 26, 2014 at 8:50 a.m.
alprova said...

Leave it to the low information folk to change the subject of discussion. This is not about abortion. Hobby Lobby, nor anyone else, is being asked to pay for abortions at all.

Contraception is the subject, and this antiquated Catholic prohibition is quite ridiculous. Contraception can prevent an unwanted pregnancy, which makes any argument about abortion moot.

March 26, 2014 at 8:58 a.m.

Everything about you libs is control.

Nobody is going to give up their job at Hobby Lobby in this economy. More and more companies are giving up coverage, and less and less people are blaming the company, but rather BO.

Everything about the liberal agenda is intrusion and hypocrisy. BO can exempt all kinds people and organizations he wants, and pick and chooseS what not to enforce in the law, but this is not ok?

Sunday is the day they chose to close, most Christians go to church on Sunday.

Libs are much more friendly to Sharia Law than they are to anything Christian.

March 26, 2014 at 9:15 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo, it's not about contraception either, you dolt. It's about govt mandating to businesses. Keep to shucking and jiving at the car lot, polyester boy.

March 26, 2014 at 9:23 a.m.
limric said...

This case smells like nothing more than a shakedown by the right wing disguised as a denial of religious freedoms.

To wit:

Hobby Lobby is a for profit ‘corporation’, which is owned by families (and shareholders) that voice its wishes to run its corporation on Christian principles. They contend that mandating them to provide coverage for some drugs like Plan B or ulipristal acetate(Ella) makes them complicit in practices like abortion, and as such conflicts with their ideals/morals.

HOWEVER…

Much of Hobby Lobby’s products (way over 50%) come from…wait for it… China; where their products are built by non-Christians – by a people that ‘fornicate’ a lot - have mandatory contraception - AND forced/sex selective abortions. Slightly hypocritical -- ISN’T IT. So just what are these Christian values? ‘Religious conservative’ I’ve come to believe, is literally synonymous with sanctimonious hypocrisy. Smug Republican Jesus wouldn’t have it any other way.

Furthermore, doesn’t anyone see the irony of Hobby Lobby’s plea that the mandate is discriminatory while they demand the right to discriminate (yes I said discriminate) against a single group? - women of reproductive age. Thus, if the Supreme Court agrees to this exclusion, they are establishing a precedent that women of reproductive age do not have the same rights as everyone else. Quite a conundrum!

I predict it’ll unfortunately come down to a swing vote and Justice Roberts will vote to uphold the mandate as is because he upheld Obama care once before, he's not going to do this over and over on increasingly flippant exclusions.

Hobby Lobby won’t prevail.

But then I was wrong about ‘Citizens United'.

March 26, 2014 at 9:34 a.m.
conservative said...

I guess Mr. Bennett is saying that a woman who works at Hobby Lobby is going to be upset if she has to buy her own birth control.

Makes you wonder how a woman who works there survived when she had to fork out that 10 bucks or less.

I would bet a Coke that few if any would quit if they had to go on buying their own birth control.

March 26, 2014 at 10:01 a.m.

I see that Bennett's defenders are up at midnight to be the first to comment. Night crawlers.

March 26, 2014 at 10:07 a.m.
conservative said...

No peace, no sleep.

March 26, 2014 at 10:20 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Wonder how many female Hobby Lobby workers would be distressed if they had to furnish their own birth control?

March 26, 2014 at 10:31 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Birth control pills are used for other reasons then just preventing pregnancy. And just out of curiosity, is Hobby Lobby also rallying against having to "provide" for their male employees ED medications?

March 26, 2014 at 10:33 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Common sense says that ED and birth control items should not be mandated. If for a legitimate medical reason, include birth control.

March 26, 2014 at 10:48 a.m.
limric said...

"Common sense says that ED and birth control items should not be mandated." Ok - Why?

Are you implying there should be a type of 'means testing'?

Why not ED medication? It is after all a 'dysfunction'- ie.a medical condition...isn't it?

March 26, 2014 at 11:44 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

I'm saying use common sense, limmy. Contrary replies are dysfunctional too. Should they be covered?

March 26, 2014 at 11:49 a.m.
limric said...

Yea ok, I get it.

Repeat the term 'common sense', provide nothing to bolster just what your version of 'common sense' is, and finish with the usual childish retort.

Wash-rinse-repeat.

March 26, 2014 at 12:06 p.m.
alprova said...

Z-man wrote: "Everything about you libs is control."

I really don't get where this issue is anything having to do with control, but then you're known for being a drama queen.

"Nobody is going to give up their job at Hobby Lobby in this economy."

Sir, you need to join the 21st century. Jobs are back and many can be found, even today.

"More and more companies are giving up coverage, and less and less people are blaming the company, but rather BO."

You are so correct!! The ignorant do blame the President for everything.

"Everything about the liberal agenda is intrusion and hypocrisy. BO can exempt all kinds people and organizations he wants, and pick and chooseS what not to enforce in the law, but this is not ok?"

Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

"Sunday is the day they chose to close, most Christians go to church on Sunday."

Read your Bible. Look at a calendar. Do a little research. Saturday is the Sabbath day. The Catholic Church changed it to Sunday, much to the disappointment of God.

"Libs are much more friendly to Sharia Law than they are to anything Christian."

What a truly moronic statement, but then that's what you do best.

March 26, 2014 at 12:07 p.m.
alprova said...

pt wrote: "Alpo, it's not about contraception either, you dolt. It's about govt mandating to businesses."

It's not even close to being about that, Twitterdumdum. The mandates for coverage are on insurers, not businesses. Hobby Lobby merely objects to such coverage being part of something they augment in any manner.

"Keep to shucking and jiving at the car lot, polyester boy."

It's so obvious that you want me in the worst way. Ain't gonna happen bankrupt boy.

March 26, 2014 at 12:21 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

A couple of flat-earthers on here have mentioned abortion. But what, pray tell, does this have to do with abortion?? This is about contraception (the best means of reducing the number of abortions, btw. So all people on the right, left, and in between ought to be on board with making contraception as accessible as possible).

Hobby Lobby is a BUSINESS, not a church or a religious institution. And as a business the owners have entered into the public arena, where we have, and have had for a long time, something in this country called the SEPARATION of church and state. The owners are certainly entitled to their religious convictions but when they try to bring those convictions to bear on their employees that is a blatant crossing of that line. Employees are not owned by their employers to the extent that they must adhere to the religious dictates of their employee. This is not about government control, this is about employers/owners trying to exert THEIR control in ways they have no business doing.

You nitwits whining about government interference and control are getting your panties in a wad for the wrong reasons and aiming your ire at the wrong entity. You damn well better hope the SCOTUS doesn't come down on the side of HL. If it does, there will be nothing whatsoever stopping this country from becoming a dictatorial theocracy, and we are already too close to becoming one, as it is. You libertarians and RWNJs calling for individual liberty will see just how great that liberty is when fundamentalist wackos are "free" to exert their will in the workplace and in other areas of our lives.

March 26, 2014 at 12:32 p.m.
conservative said...

"Sunday is the day they chose to close, most Christians go to church on Sunday."

Read your Bible. Look at a calendar. Do a little research. Saturday is the Sabbath day. The Catholic Church changed it to Sunday, much to the disappointment of God

===============================================

Baloney!

Christians met on the Lord's day long before the word Catholic or the Pope or the Catholic church came into existent.

It is called the Lord's day because it is the day our only Lord and our only Savior Jesus Christ rose from the dead.

This fact can be read in the Bible.

March 26, 2014 at 12:44 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

This is a perfect example of why our health insurance does not need to be tied in any way to our workplace. If we had universal coverage or something like Medicare for all, things like this would not even be an issue. Furthermore, business owners would not be burdened with such an odious obligation of providing health insurance and would then have much less red tape and worry to contend with and much more capital to invest in their businesses.

Every other country has had the wisdom to see that health care for its citizens is a right, not a commodity to be purchased in the marketplace. It's way past time that America wised up and took the private profits out of health insurance.

March 26, 2014 at 12:54 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

There are no "facts" in the Bible, con-man...only BS, baloney, and tall tales. Even most of the myths and tales are of little moral value. Grow up. Try to think for yourself just a little. Get your head out of that stinking book of lies. You're such a perverted little twit.

March 26, 2014 at 12:58 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

So Roo, seriously. Do you see a theocracy coming? How so?

March 26, 2014 at 1:02 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative, You clearly don't seem to know the difference between the Sabbath day, and the reason we observe the holiday known as Easter Sunday.

The Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), changed the Sabbath Saturday to Sunday.

Christ or his Father did not change the day we were demanded to observe the Sabbath. Human beings did, and you simply choose to go along with it, or to be a bit more blunt, you're to ignorant to look up the fact for yourself.

There is no secret nor dispute as to when this was done and by which body of people. Apparently, most Christians yawn at the mere mention that they are keeping the wrong day of the week, holy, and some of them, like you for instance, attempt to ignorantly defend it.

March 26, 2014 at 1:03 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Limmy, you should know childish retorts. Your feeble posts are fairly retortish. Do you also fear the evil looming theocracy?

March 26, 2014 at 1:05 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpo: what would you do without your straight-man, Con? Time to tell us for the 25th time that you intend to ignore him. Me too for that matter. And BTW, thanks for the info on the sabbath. No one knew that. Much appreciated.

March 26, 2014 at 1:10 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Limric made an excellent point about the hypocrisy of Hobby Lobby. The owners have no problem reaping their profits from doing business with China, a country whose values are antithetical in so many ways to those that the HL owners profess to espouse. Yet they start waving their Bibles about some of their women employees getting contraception that is covered by their insurance plans. Oooh, the immorality of such a thing - contraception! For shame! Yeah, those paragons of righteousness are showing real principle and integrity, alright. Effin' hypocrites.

March 26, 2014 at 1:17 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"conservative, You clearly don't seem to know the difference between the Sabbath day, and the reason we observe the holiday known as Easter Sunday"

===============

This just another example of your arrogance and ignorance. The Sabbath is Saturday in Scripture, the seventh day of the week. Sunday is the first day of the week in Scripture. It is the day our only Lord and our only Savior rose from the dead. The Catholic church had nothing to do with this fact.

March 26, 2014 at 1:21 p.m.
alprova said...

Thre self-appointed room monitor wrote: "what would you do without your straight-man, Con?"

What would YOU do without an internet connection and your computer? Your entire life revolves around it.

"Time to tell us for the 25th time that you intend to ignore him."

If the man actually types from his own fingertips, I have no intent or obligation to ignore him. I ignore most of his re-postings that offer nothing new.

"Me too for that matter."

Hey...if you want to be an ass, expect it right back in your face.

"And BTW, thanks for the info on the sabbath. No one knew that. Much appreciated."

Always glad to help. You SHOULD however, always capitalize the word "Sabbath."

Betcha didn't know that either, did ya?

March 26, 2014 at 1:21 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"The Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), changed the Sabbath Saturday to Sunday."

=======================

What the Catholic Church did or did not do in 364 has nothing to do with the fact that Christians met on Sunday the first day of the week in the Bible.

Do the math, Christians met on Sunday the first day of the week in the Bible centuries before the Catholic Church decided for their followers anything.

March 26, 2014 at 1:31 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

There is untold bliss to be had in realizing that, if there be a God in heaven, he/she/it doesn't really give a rat's ass about what day we humans decide to take a rest. If there be a God, she/he/it has far greater things to contend with than what we do on a Saturday or Sunday and what we do while naked. In the meantime you hangers-on to meaningless Biblical crap can wave your holy book and hash it out amongst yourselves.

March 26, 2014 at 1:32 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "This just another example of your arrogance and ignorance."

Do tell...

"The Sabbath is Saturday in Scripture, the seventh day of the week. Sunday is the first day of the week in Scripture."

Uh huh, and can you add two and two as well?

"It is the day our only Lord and our only Savior rose from the dead."

Assuming for the moment that there is scripture to prove that Jesus arose from the dead on a Sunday, which I assume you are ready to offer, what justification is there for changing the Sabbath Day of the week, which God commanded us all to observe and to keep holy?

I know for a fact that Jesus or God did not change the Sabbath Day of the week based on the day that Jesus went to Heaven, so what justification is there for this, yet another Biblical command that is not observed by many Christians?

"The Catholic church had nothing to do with this fact."

You're right. The Catholic Church changed the Sabbath for reasons of their own, which you seem all to willing to go along with some 1,700 years later.

You're the first person I have ever ran across, to actually offer a justification that the Sabbath Day was changed because Jesus arose on a Sunday.

I look forward to your Biblical "facts" that will make this so clear that I will have no choice but to proclaim you the better informed on the issue as to why YOU observe a Sunday Sabbath.

March 26, 2014 at 1:37 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

Jesus rose from the dead on the first day (Sunday) of the week. Matthew 28:1-7, Mark 16:2-9, Luke 24:1. John 20.1

Read the Bible instead of blaspheming God's word.

March 26, 2014 at 1:41 p.m.
alprova said...

rickaroo wrote: "There is untold bliss to be had in realizing that, if there be a God in heaven, he/she/it doesn't really give a rat's ass about what day we humans decide to take a rest."

It's nice to see you write the word "if," which indicates that you harbor a certain amount of doubt, rather than outright rejection.

There is very little written in the Bible that is presented as God's word, but this one is a direct quote. He most certainly did set forth a certain day of the week to observe as the Sabbath Day, and that day was Saturday.

"If there be a God, she/he/it has far greater things to contend with than what we do on a Saturday or Sunday and what we do while naked."

Really? What do you believe he does all day? Where is the evidence that he contends with ANYTHING here on Earth?

"In the meantime you hangers-on to meaningless Biblical crap can wave your holy book and hash it out amongst yourselves."

But...but you jumped in on this one, as if you harbored an opinion too. It must have meaning to you too, even though you won't admit it.

March 26, 2014 at 1:45 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

Jesus appeared to His disciples on the first day (Sunday) of the week John 20:19

Read the Bible, do the math, this was centuries before the Catholic Church decided anything for it's followers.

March 26, 2014 at 1:46 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

The Holy Spirit came on Pentecost, the first day ( Sunday) of the week when disciples of Jesus were gathered together. Acts 2:1

Read the Bible, do the math, this was centuries before the Catholic Church decided anything for it's followers.

March 26, 2014 at 1:52 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative, you need to read the Bible yourself, and comprehend what is written in it.

The STONE was rolled away on the third day, which was indeed on a Sunday, and the Lord was not there.

He could have disappeared on Friday and Saturday as well as Sunday preceding the time the stone revealed him to be gone.

That still does not justify a Sunday Sabbath. The commandment to observe the Sabbath Day is one of the Ten Commandments and has never, ever been changed by God or his Son.

There is no Biblical justification whatsoever for changing the day of the week that the Lord set aside as the Sabbath Day, and I'm sure you know it, but you've been taught to disregard yet another Biblical instruction, and this one came DIRECTLY from God.

It IS God's word.

How can you do that and consider yourself to be a better Christian than someone else?

This is yet another tenet of Christianity that you CHOOSE to ignore, and it is not cherry-picked, nor uttered by someone other than God. He COMMANDED it!!

You're free to put your faith in obscure fable as written in the Bible by humans, but I prefer to defer to that which God was quoted in one of his few quotations.

This one should be a no-brainer, but...

March 26, 2014 at 2:03 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

The first sermon was preached by Peter on the first day ( Sunday) of the week. Acts 2:14

Read the Bible instead of blaspheming God's word, then do the math, this was centuries before the Catholic Church decided anything for it's followers.

Are you beginning to see a trend? Have you figured out that the Bible is clear that the seventh day or Sabbath (Saturday) is different from the first day (Sunday)?

March 26, 2014 at 2:06 p.m.
limric said...

”Do you also fear the evil looming theocracy?” No.

I do however cringe at a looming something you are proud to be associated with: An Idiocracy.

Wash-rinse-repeat.

March 26, 2014 at 2:07 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Alprova, I said "if" only because I do not know any more than anybody else about the things beyond the scope of our limited intelligence and conscious mind. I have no doubt, however, about there NOT being a male sky daddy who hinges on our every word and deed and interacts in our personal lives and determines whether we are worthy of eternal hell or eternal paradise based simply on whether we BELIEVE in his supposed "son" as our savior. That is childish nonsense and I will say emphatically that that sort of God no more exists than does Zeus or Neptune or Apollo or any of the other famous gods of Greek or Roman origin.

Yes, I have an opinion and I stated it already: what day the Sabbath actually falls on might be of interest as a mere technicality within the fictional Biblical framework but otherwise it is utterly inconsequential. To believe that there is a God in heaven who really concerns herself with such a silly matter is the height of absurdity. It's a shame that otherwise intelligent adults waste time debating such a non-issue or believing in such a petty God.

March 26, 2014 at 2:08 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

Three thousand converts became Christians after Peter's first sermon on the first day of the week (Sunday). Acts 2:41

Read the Bible instead of blaspheming God's word, then do the math, this was centuries before the Catholic Church decided anything for it's followers

March 26, 2014 at 2:12 p.m.
alprova said...

connie, it's no skin off my nose what day of the week you choose to observe as the Sabbath Day, and the facts are out there, which most definitely include the Catholic Church changing the day of the week to be observed as the Sabbath Day, and you are equally free to discount anything and everything, which again is of no consequence to myself.

Prior to the Catholic Church's Council of Laodicea, the day all people observed the Sabbath was on the seventh day of the week.

I suppose you believe that you can only communicate to God is by speaking through a Priest too.

Those darn Catholics. They've been indoctrinating Christians for Centuries with their kooky ways.

They'd rather see a girl get knocked up and force her to bear an unwanted child, rather than to prevent the pregnancy to start with.

Isn't it so nice how an argument can be used to tie into today's subject?

Kooky Katholics!!

March 26, 2014 at 2:14 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

The three thousand were baptized on the first day (Sunday) of the week. Acts 2:41.

Read the Bible instead of blaspheming God's word, then do the math, this was centuries before the Catholic Church decided anything for it's followers.

Pleas stick with me, the light will come on.

March 26, 2014 at 2:17 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

Paul instructed the churches to put aside contributions (offerings) on the first day ( Sunday) of the week, the day they met to worship. 1 Corinthians 16:2

Christians met on Sunday the first day of the week. It is so plain.

Read the Bible instead of blaspheming God's word, then do the math, this was centuries before the Catholic Church decided anything for it's followers.

March 26, 2014 at 2:27 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie, you can cite every example you so desire to attempt to justify the changing of the day of the week that God commanded us to observe as the Sabbath Day.

Do you now begin to understand why I am correct that the Bible is not the word of God, and that it has been amended time and again?

Where is the Biblical scripture that tells us all that the day of worship was to be changed BY GOD from Saturday to Sunday?

All you're coming up with is examples of sinners practicing sin.

March 26, 2014 at 2:33 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

The disciples of Christ, Christians, met and worshipped on Sunday the first day of the week and had the Lord's Supper at that time:

“Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight” Acts 20:7

Read the Bible instead of blaspheming God's word, then do the math, this was centuries before the Catholic Church decided anything for it's followers.

March 26, 2014 at 2:40 p.m.
alprova said...

Exodus 20:11 - "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Deuteronomy 5:13-14 - "Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:"

"But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine *, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou."

Where in the Bible were these instructions overturned?

They weren't....ever.

March 26, 2014 at 2:44 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

As is my custom, Alpy, I will refrain from knocking other peoples religion. You really should too.

Limmy, you don't like my positions, fine. But tacky remarks like "idiocracy"...very juvenile.

You know you've won the argument when Hobby Lobby haters start whining about China. Bwahaha.

March 26, 2014 at 2:47 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"You're the first person I have ever ran across, to actually offer a justification that the Sabbath Day was changed because Jesus arose on a Sunday."

==========================

Well that is just nonsense. The Sabbath law was given to the nation of Israel and was Saturday. Sunday was and has always been Sunday the first day of the week.

THE TWO ARE DIFFERENT DAYS

THE SABBATH NEVER BECAME SUNDAY

March 26, 2014 at 2:51 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "The Sabbath law was given to the nation of Israel and was Saturday. Sunday was and has always been Sunday the first day of the week."

It was also the FIRST day of the week, when God began his labors.

"THE TWO ARE DIFFERENT DAYS. THE SABBATH NEVER BECAME SUNDAY"

I see, so now I am to assume that you set aside two days per week for the observance of the Sabbath?

You call one the Sabbath Day, and the other the Lord's Day? Which one of the two do you keep holy? Which day of the two do you go to church to worship the Lord?

You've strapped on your waffle shoes, haven't you?

March 26, 2014 at 3:01 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

He could have disappeared on Friday and Saturday as well as Sunday preceding the time the stone revealed him to be gone

==============================

YOU ARE TOTALLY INCORRIGIBLE!

Both Jesus and Scripture testify that He would arise on the third day after being crucified.

From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. Matthew 16:21

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4

March 26, 2014 at 3:09 p.m.
alprova said...

pt wrote: "You know you've won the argument when Hobby Lobby haters start whining about China."

You truly are a moron.

You cannot see any hypocrisy in an American company refusing to pay for health care coverage that will go to pay for contraceptives, when they derive most, if not all of their earnings from the sale of goods produced in a nation that forces abortion as a means to deal with birth control?

And further, you have the audacity to state that you, who offers nothing of substance all day long, every day of the week, have won an argument?

You Sir are this forum's clown posing as an idiot. You're the butt of your own jokes. You contribute nothing worthwhile to this forum, ever.

You really need to concentrate on your twitterlings. You're expertise in contributing anything people wants to read ends the second you log off of that site and come over to this one.

All you do is enter this room to fart.

March 26, 2014 at 3:13 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"I look forward to your Biblical "facts" that will make this so clear that I will have no choice but to proclaim you the better informed on the issue as to why YOU observe a Sunday Sabbath"

==================

Wrong again!

I don't observe a Sunday Sabbath. The Sabbath is a Saturday. Sunday is another day, the first day of the week in Scripture.

Why don't you read the Bible instead of pretending to have knowledge and being shown to be silly and foolish and a blasphemer?

March 26, 2014 at 3:17 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie, you're hopelessly stuck in Sunday School, where you were taught songs that celebrate the three day timeline.

Any contention that the day to worship was changed Biblically by anything written in the Bible is totally laughable. If Jesus was discovered missing from his tomb on a Thursday, I suppose this would justify a Thursday Sabbath, if we believe what you believe.

The Sabbath Day is set in stone. There is no dispute, even from you in one of your late postings.

You are free as a bird to worship the lord, thy God on any day of the week, but he commands us to honor the Sabbath Day each and every Saturday, precisely from Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday.

That is in the Bible you call God's word. It is commanded.

March 26, 2014 at 3:22 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alpy, I'm appalled at you. I offer my opinions, you offer yours. You, and your leftist friends don't like what I say. BFD. I'm perplexed as to why you think your wiki clips and google grunts are so much more important than my considered opinions. Get back on the lot, pal. May be a sucker out there waiting on your spiel. Buy here, pay here at Honest Al's!! Yee haw🚗

March 26, 2014 at 3:28 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "Wrong again!"

Really? And you've been arguing all this crap about Sunday Sabbath's...WHY? " I don't observe a Sunday Sabbath. The Sabbath is a Saturday. Sunday is another day, the first day of the week in Scripture."

Do you really believe that anyone who has been reading our exchange is now suddenly going to believe that you have not been defending a Sunday Sabbath?

"Why don't you read the Bible instead of pretending to have knowledge and being shown to be silly and foolish and a blasphemer?"

Why don't you sit down at the dinner table, put on a nice linen napkin, and start shoveling the crap you've been spewing for two hours into your own mouth, and finish off with a dessert in knowing that you have once again proven me CORRECT!!

I really hate being right all the time.

March 26, 2014 at 3:29 p.m.
alprova said...

pt wrote: "Alpy, I'm appalled at you."

Oh me oh my. Would it offend you to offer that you disgust me, because you only seem capable of trampling on other people?

"I offer my opinions, you offer yours. You, and your leftist friends don't like what I say. BFD. I'm perplexed as to why you think your wiki clips and google grunts are so much more important that considered opinions."

Anyone who knows me, knows I quote very little from Wiki. It is widely known that you are always incapable of backing up your tweets.

"Get back on the lot, pal. May be a sucker out there waiting on your spiel. Buy here, pay here at Honest Al's!! Yee haw"

Don't forget to send in those Chapter 13 payments to the Trustee. Miss one, and those creditors will eat you alive the second your case is dismissed.

March 26, 2014 at 3:35 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"The commandment to observe the Sabbath Day is one of the Ten Commandments and has never, ever been changed by God or his Son."

============================

The Sabbath was part of the covenant that God made with Israel.

NOWHERE does Scripture dictate, specify, or command, that Christians meet on Saturday.

NOWHERE in Scripture are Christians chastised, or admonished or warned, or punished, or told they were wrong for meeting and worshipping on Sunday

. Please, refer to many of my previous posts where Jesus met with His disciples on Sunday the church was founded on a Sunday and Christians met on Sunday and had the Lord's supper on Sunday.

This was centuries before the Catholic Church had any instructions for it's followers on the matter.

Read the Bible, instead of blaspheming God's word

March 26, 2014 at 3:36 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

Conman why do you over look John 8:1-10? That passage ought to quench your zeal to condemn other people for anything, which in itself is a serious sin. Or should I refer to Matt 7:1-5 and Luke 6:37-42? If you will read John 4:20-24, you will see that neither the day or the place one worships bears any relationship to one's faith (or is set in stone). If I recall the beautiful stones were pulled down anyway.

I'm not sure what version of scripture you are reading from, but it surely sounds very selective and arbitrary.

March 26, 2014 at 3:39 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"As is my custom, Alpy, I will refrain from knocking other peoples religion. You really should too." - PT

Con-man does nothing but "knock" every other person, especially gays, who do not subscribe to his exact beliefs. If anybody deserves some knocking it's he. He's an insolent, arrogant, self-righteous prick and there is nothing sacrosanct about his precious beliefs that deserve to be protected from knocking.

"Limmy, you don't like my positions, fine. But tacky remarks like "idiocracy"...very juvenile." - PT

Yeah, let's all aspire to PT's lofty level of maturity and class. Never a derogatory word or tacky remark comes from his keyboard.

"You know you've won the argument when Hobby Lobby haters start whining about China. Bwahaha." - PT

What the heck does that even mean?? See alprova's response above. It bears repeating.

March 26, 2014 at 3:43 p.m.
alprova said...

conie wrote: "The Sabbath was part of the covenant that God made with Israel. NOWHERE does Scripture dictate, specify, or command, that Christians meet on Saturday."

I was hoping you would try that ploy. You just sunk every argument you have ever made claiming that any word in the Bible pertains to modern man.

I am truly laughing my ass off at you. You are too stupid to see how you just screwed yourself with that statement.

The Ten Commandments were issued to Israel as well, so now we know we no longer have to worry about them, and when God stares me down, I'll be sure to offer your argument and cite you as the authority who told me.

"NOWHERE in Scripture are Christians chastised, or admonished or warned, or punished, or told they were wrong for meeting and worshipping on Sunday ."

But of course. Since the Catholic Church, as in the Church of England, rewrote many parts of the Bible and dropped two books from it, who knows what the truth is any longer?

"Please, refer to many of my previous posts where Jesus met with His disciples on Sunday the church was founded on a Sunday and Christians met on Sunday and had the Lord's supper on Sunday."

And what proof can you offer that all those references were not purposely changed? By your own wording, the Sabbath Day is Saturday.

"This was centuries before the Catholic Church had any instructions for it's followers on the matter."

Sir, the very book of Acts was written as an apology to the Romans, an outline offering to appease to the Romans, a plea for Christians to be allowed to practice their beliefs.

Pagans, or Romans, worshipped their form of God on Sunday. The early churches knew Saturday was the Sabbath Day, but this one conciliatory act was a sin that has been passed on for eons, justified by the sinners who wrote about it.

"Read the Bible, instead of blaspheming God's word"

You might try reading something with a bit more truth in it one day. The Bible is an altered text, filled with myths, fables, and purposeful changes to adapt Christianity to the habits of Pagans.

Believe what you want, but you're highly delusional if you believe that you have more than a child's perception of the Bible and where it came from.

March 26, 2014 at 3:53 p.m.
joepulitzer said...

alkarma said, Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

LIBERALS DON'T; THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

March 26, 2014 at 3:55 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Roo, not sure of the nexus between PT and Con. Nothing Alpo says is worth repeating. He is the liar of record on this forum. PT has never lied on this board. Never.

March 26, 2014 at 3:56 p.m.
limric said...

PlainTruth,

You are a shining wondrous example of André Gide’s maxim: “The true hypocrite is the one who ceases to perceive his deception; the one who lies with sincerity.”

BUT, the good thing about a hypocritical schmuck like yourself is you get to keep your values.

Think about that last part for a moment. IF you can. It’s a hard one.

March 26, 2014 at 4:03 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"You are free as a bird to worship the lord, thy God on any day of the week, but he commands us to honor the Sabbath Day each and every Saturday, precisely from Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday."

============================

You have the gall, the gall, to use the word "honor."

You have constantly blasphemed and dishonored God your creator, the one you will answer to for your gross blasphemies.

A sample:

"Jesus sinned"

"Jesus cannot be God"

"The Bible never has been the word of God and you will never make it so"

"Face the truth for once in your life. God is a murderer and a mass-murderer at that...IF THE BIBLE IS ACCURATE."

"My belief that the Bible is not the word of God in no manner is equal to holding any contempt for it."

"If the Bible is God's word, you have on record, his admission that he took the lives of what must have been millions of innocent lives in a fit of rage"

"The idea that we are to accept a mass-murderer as an object of worship doesn't reflect well upon Christians at all. If he murdered nearly every human on the planet, God is far more heinous than Hitler. Yet Christians are to willfully worship him without question. Why?"

March 26, 2014 at 4:07 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

I've carefully considered it, Limmy. 2 things. I get under your thin skin. You are truly FOS. Clear?

March 26, 2014 at 4:08 p.m.
alprova said...

pt wrote: "Nothing Alpo says is worth repeating. He is the liar of record on this forum."

Sir, no one has proven me to have lied about one thing, least of all you.

"PT has never lied on this board. Never."

Setting aside the fact that it is sickening how often you refer to yourself in the third-person, as if you were Shakespeare or something, you've lied many times in your endeavors on this forum, and you know that is the PLAIN TRUTH.

March 26, 2014 at 4:09 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

cite one, lie-boy

March 26, 2014 at 4:15 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "You have the gall, the gall, to use the word "honor."..."

Really? It's just a word, isn't it?

"You have constantly blasphemed and dishonored God your creator, the one you will answer to for your gross blasphemies."

Well then, if that is the case, what's it to you? I guess you've run up against that brick wall again, so you're going to drag out my truisms for another run over the next few days.

You need to learn to jerk off when you get frustrated. An orgasm would do wonders for you, I have no doubt.

March 26, 2014 at 4:15 p.m.
alprova said...

Jack wrote: "cite one, lie-boy>"

I'll cite three

1.) You're independently wealthy;

2.) You have a life, and;

3.) You've never filed for bankruptcy.

Oh...I just thought of one that qualifies for the bonus round!!

You claim to be a fence sitter...

March 26, 2014 at 4:18 p.m.
PlainTruth said...
  1. Cite where I said I was independently wealthy.
  2. How do I not have a life?
  3. Bankruptcy is a fantasy of yours. Never happened. Not even close.
  4. I once was a fence sitter. You extreme left-wing demagogues drove me to the right.
March 26, 2014 at 4:24 p.m.
alprova said...

Perception can be an overpowering reality.

Never forget it.

March 26, 2014 at 4:47 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"I once was a fence sitter. You extreme left-wing demagogues drove me to the right."

I assume you are older than the internet and the TFP forums. Is your contention that prior to joining this forum, you were a "middle of the road type of guy"? I would coin that as total BS.

March 26, 2014 at 4:49 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

ConMan, all I am gathering from you is the Ten Commandments no longer matter. Yet, you would probably insist they need to be posted in every classroom and in every courthouse in the US.

March 26, 2014 at 4:52 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"But of course. Since the Catholic Church, as in the Church of England, rewrote many parts of the Bible and dropped two books from it, who knows what the truth is any longer?"

Well now, that is quite a claim. What parts were rewritten? What two books were dropped from it.? Why are you not preaching the parts that were rewritten if that is where the truth is?

March 26, 2014 at 4:56 p.m.
conservative said...

Gaussianinteger:

Well you just don't gather very well.

But since you have decided to comment on them what is your stand on them?

They are surely from God, right?

You would surely want them posted, right?

March 26, 2014 at 5:01 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

That's exactly what I'm saying, Gassy.

March 26, 2014 at 5:02 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

conman is conspicuously avoiding my post :-)

You guys ought to give up on conman, you can't argue with a closed mind

March 26, 2014 at 5:17 p.m.
limric said...

Shall I? Why YES- I shall...

Taken from the book of DUH. Verse 2014/2:47 post meridian.

"Plainny, you don't like my positions, fine. But tacky remarks like "FOS"...very juvenile."

March 26, 2014 at 5:27 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"And what proof can you offer that all those references were not purposely changed? By your own wording, the Sabbath Day is Saturday."

===============

We have thousands of copies of manuscripts that were written in Hebrew and Greek.

These thousands were written at least a couple of thousand years before the Catholic Church came into existence. The Catholic Church has not possessed all of these copies so it would be easy to compare if the Catholic Church had somehow made changes.

These were painstakingly hand written on now delicate parchment paper making them impossible to alter.

Who are you trying to bamboozle?

March 26, 2014 at 5:27 p.m.
conservative said...

inquiringmind said...

Conman why do you over look John 8:1-10? That passage ought to quench your zeal to condemn other people for anything, which in itself is a serious sin. Or should I refer to Matt 7:1-5 and Luke 6:37-42? If you will read John 4:20-24, you will see that neither the day or the place one worships bears any relationship to one's faith (or is set in stone). If I recall the beautiful stones were pulled down anyway.

I'm not sure what version of scripture you are reading from, but it surely sounds very selective and arbitrary.

March 26, 2014 at 3:39 p.m

================================

That is just a mishmash of gibberish to me. How about citing my specific words and what you specifically are trying to say.

March 26, 2014 at 5:38 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"Pagans, or Romans, worshipped their form of God on Sunday. The early churches knew Saturday was the Sabbath Day, but this one conciliatory act was a sin that has been passed on for eons, justified by the sinners who wrote about it."

=====================================

You are an incorrigible liar. Pagans don't worship God.

This gibberish must be from the Mormons whom you were indoctrinated by for years.

At least you have conceded that the Sabbath is Saturday, even though you now act as if you new that all along.

March 26, 2014 at 5:54 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"I guess you've run up against that brick wall again, so you're going to drag out my truisms for another run over the next few days"

=======================

Well, you really are the incorrigible one. You call your blasphemies and lies "truisms."

Now you don't seem so eager for me just post your words.

Which is it. Do want me to post your words or not?

March 26, 2014 at 6:01 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"I look forward to your Biblical "facts" that will make this so clear that I will have no choice but to proclaim you the better informed on the issue as to why YOU observe a Sunday Sabbath."

Well I don't observe a "Sunday Sabbath," that is your invention.

I have already explain to you that the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day and the first day of the week is Sunday.

I guess you think others won't notice your lie.

March 26, 2014 at 6:38 p.m.

Obamacare is a shakedown, there is no doubt about it. But this really isn't about Obamacare is it, libs? It's really about your desire to control, and ram your agenda down their throats.

You simply can't force someone to accept contraception and abortion as being moral, if they believe it's immoral, period.

To some contraception is no different than abortion. That's how they see it. Deal with it. No one is telling you to adapt that view. It just irritates you that they exist.

March 26, 2014 at 6:42 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Zablee....They askeert of that dreaded theocracy. Too funny.

March 26, 2014 at 7:22 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Fister and PT fail to see in their righteous flailing that Hobby Lobby has thousands of employees. These employees may or may not share the same views as the owners. Fister proclaims, "No one is telling you to adapt that view", yet the owners are basically telling their employees to, well for lack of better words, "adapt our view". Hypocrisy at its finest ladies and gentlemen.

March 26, 2014 at 7:40 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

ConMan, No, I don't think the 10 commandments are from God. A form of them can be found in ancient Mesopotamian writings. Besides, number 6 says, "Thou shall not kill". Yet, I'm sure you'll cite me some instances when you believe killing is acceptable.

March 26, 2014 at 7:44 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Gassy, you think the gubmint lawyers include hypocrisy in their pleadings to the SCOTUS? Hypocrisy is not the issue. A red herring from the left. Of which you belong.

March 26, 2014 at 7:52 p.m.
conservative said...

GaussianInteger said...

ConMan, No, I don't think the 10 commandments are from God. A form of them can be found in ancient Mesopotamian writings. Besides, number 6 says, "Thou shall not kill". Yet, I'm sure you'll cite me some instances when you believe killing is acceptable.

March 26, 2014 at 7:44 p.m.

===========================

Fine, Gaussaininteger, you are not a believer, you are not a Christian.

At least you are honest and don't pretend to be a Christian unlike Mr. Anthony Provancher.

Citing other ancient writings proves nothing except they recognized the same moral truths contained in the 10 Commandments.

March 26, 2014 at 8:25 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"I guess you've run up against that brick wall again, so you're going to drag out my truisms for another run over the next few days"

=======================

Well, you really are the incorrigible one. You call your blasphemies and lies "truisms."

Now you don't seem so eager for me just post your words.

Which is it, do want me to post your words or not?

March 26, 2014 at 8:35 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "Well now, that is quite a claim. What parts were rewritten?"

Who knows? It's widely known that the Bible was altered by King James with the assistance of the Church of England.

You can't be that naïve. This is a widely established fact.

"What two books were dropped from it.?"

Apocryphal and Laodiceans.

"Why are you not preaching the parts that were rewritten if that is where the truth is?"

Sir, I am not a preacher. I know not if what is missing had any truth to it or not, but I do have my suspicions why Apocryphal was removed. It prohibited Physicians from charging for their services, or so I read anyway.

March 26, 2014 at 8:52 p.m.
conservative said...

GaussianInteger:

The translation of Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill" means murder and is translated that way in many other translations such as The New American Standard.

God prescribed the death penalty for many offenses including murder.

Now pay close attention to this:

God commanded the death penalty for not keeping the Sabbath!

That will surely surprise Mr. Anthony Provancher.

March 26, 2014 at 9:01 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "We have thousands of copies of manuscripts that were written in Hebrew and Greek."

Not quite true. The manuscripts are written in ancient, long expired languages. They do not resemble modern Hebrew and Greek languages spoken today.

"These thousands were written at least a couple of thousand years before the Catholic Church came into existence."

The oldest surviving complete writings are Greek manuscripts from the 4th century (A.D.). The Catholic Church was founded in 1 A.D.

"There are no writings contained in the Bible that pre-date The Catholic Church..."

You are most correct.

"The Catholic Church has not possessed all of these copies so it would be easy to compare if the Catholic Church had somehow made changes."

And I'm sure you know someone personally who could prove conclusively that the Bible you read is pure and unaltered, right?

Sorry, but my stance has been written about many times, by many people. There is no one on the face of this Earth who would begin to support your off-the-wall theory.

"These were painstakingly hand written on now delicate parchment paper making them impossible to alter."

OMG!! Who knew that parchment paper was so secure and unalterable. I can print a phony $100 bill on a good computer, but something wrote a couple of thousand years ago could not be duplicated or altered? That's a hoot.

"Who are you trying to bamboozle?"

Clearly, you believe what you believe. Your basis for such beliefs are on a bedrock as solid as Jello, and You're about the only person I have ever come across who believes the Bible read today is the total Word of God.

March 26, 2014 at 9:12 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Pretty sure there was no book called Apocryphal ever in the Bible.

March 26, 2014 at 9:16 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

Connie wrote: "Well now, that is quite a claim. What parts were rewritten?"

Who knows? It's widely known that the Bible was altered by King James with the assistance of the Church of England.

You can't be that naïve. This is a widely established fact.

=========================

You have been bamboozled and now are attempting to bamboozle. To say parts were rewritten one has to know the "parts" that is the words that were rewritten.

There are thousands of copies of the scriptures that were written in Hebrew and Greek existing today that were found at different times and the King James translators did not have all of them. They are essentially in agreement. If they had been changed we would know it by comparison.

Don't even try to tell me how the King James translators changed delicate ancient parchments without destroying them or anyone finding it out. Your insistence to the contrary and dismissive "who knows" is laughable.

You really are a piece of work.

March 26, 2014 at 9:16 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "You are an incorrigible liar. Pagans don't worship God."

Not YOUR God. They had their own deity or Deities.

"This gibberish must be from the Mormons whom you were indoctrinated by for years."

Sir, your knowledge of Biblical history is worse than that of a five year old. Mormons worship on Sunday too. That's not me.

"At least you have conceded that the Sabbath is Saturday, even though you now act as if you new that all along."

Anyone who has read this entire diatribe knows who first declared the Sabbath Saturday, and who tried to defend a Sunday Sabbath, and you Sir have decided to purposely bear false witness even knowing that the proof to your lie can be found in this very thread.

March 26, 2014 at 9:19 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "Well, you really are the incorrigible one. You call your blasphemies and lies "truisms."..."

Until the day ever comes that you prove them untrue, they stand as un-refuted truisms.

"Now you don't seem so eager for me just post your words."

Post 'em. I'm proud of them, and their truth will stand until the world is on fire.

"Which is it. Do want me to post your words or not?"

Post away. You're the only person who has ever posted anything negative in regard to them.

March 26, 2014 at 9:23 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "Now pay close attention to this: God commanded the death penalty for not keeping the Sabbath! That will surely surprise Mr. Anthony Provancher."

Sir, you are the one who challenged the Saturday Sabbath and now you are attempting to deny your own words, and you audaciously condemn me to death after your misrepresentations?

You're pathetic.

I always suspected you were FOS, but today's postings by you prove it.

You're not a Christian at all.

You're just a closeted and confused homosexual, like Andrew Shirvell, the Michigan Lawyer who stalked those who came out of the closet and proclaimed themselves homosexual.

He was ordered to pay the man he stalked $4.5 million.

March 26, 2014 at 9:34 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "Pretty sure there was no book called Apocryphal ever in the Bible."

The term refers to several writings that once appeared and then were dropped, collectively they were known as Apocrypha. They once appeared in the Old and the New Testament.

March 26, 2014 at 9:42 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

I knew that w/o Google, Alps. But you said it was one of two books dropped from the Bible. or am I seeing things?

March 26, 2014 at 9:46 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

conman,

How about reading the scriptural references and you will see exactly what I refer to.

You also need to go to school to read up on the nature of exegesis of the ancient manuscripts, all of which are reproductions of earlier missing texts. The best example is the ending of Mark at 16:8. None of the earliest manuscripts have the longer ending. I could continue to offer you citations but if you will just concentrate on the few I've given you, perhaps we could have a meaningful conversation.

Alprova is getting into the provenance of the canon a debate that while interesting is far afield from the core of Christian teachings that Conman seems to be unaware.

March 26, 2014 at 9:53 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

Apocryphal and Laodiceans were "dropped" as you call it as well as others which were deemed as not inspired by God.

You can call them scripture if you want just like you could for the Book of Mormon but you are mostly alone.

You don't realize that the Catholic Church and the Christian Church have different beliefs and doctrines.

And who was the Pope in 1 A.D.? Peter? It is preposterous to claim the Catholic Church was founded in 1 A. D.

Those whom God inspired to write New Testament Scripture after 1 A. D. were not Catholic. Do you have any idea who Paul, and John and James and Peter and Timothy were. The word Catholic was not around at that time.

Revelation was written around 94-96 A. D.. The cannon was closed with that book. It was God's last word to mankind.

You really need to get your head out of Wickedpedia.

March 26, 2014 at 9:55 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "You have been bamboozled and now are attempting to bamboozle. To say parts were rewritten one has to know the "parts" that is the words that were rewritten."

Sir, there is more than enough specific information out there to pore over. I read about it years ago, but I have not the time nor inclination to do your research.

If you want to know the truth, Google it with an open mind. It isn't going to take you very long at all to discover that what you call the "word of God," is a farce and full of fiction.

"There are thousands of copies of the scriptures that were written in Hebrew and Greek existing today that were found at different times and the King James translators did not have all of them."

From what I have read, they didn't have ANY of them. The King wrote his own version of the Bible and you believe it to be true and correct.

Nothing is going to convince you otherwise, so wallow in your ignorance if it suits you, but the facts are out there. Look 'em up.

"They are essentially in agreement. If they had been changed we would know it by comparison."

And I'm sure you have received education to be able to read ancient Hebrew and Greek, so that you have a full understanding, right?

Who is this "we?"

"Don't even try to tell me how the King James translators changed delicate ancient parchments without destroying them or anyone finding it out. Your insistence to the contrary and dismissive "who knows" is laughable."

I've never once suggested that anything has been destroyed. Translations have been maliciously fumbled and personal opinions inserted, not to mention instances of mistranslations that were accidental in nature.

Do some research!! You're not going to find such proof in your copy of the Bible. You're going to have to read it elsewhere.

The Bible is one of the most imperfect collection of writings known to man. Holes can be found in the very first book.

If God had any hand in the creation of the Bible, President Obama is a Messiah, for God would then be the most inept entity to have ever graced the entire universe.

You have my permission to quote me on that too. You really are a piece of work.

March 26, 2014 at 9:58 p.m.
alprova said...

PT wrote: "I knew that w/o Google, Alps. But you said it was one of two books dropped from the Bible. or am I seeing things?"

As a collection of writings, yes.

March 26, 2014 at 10 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"Anyone who has read this entire diatribe knows who first declared the Sabbath Saturday, and who tried to defend a Sunday Sabbath, and you Sir have decided to purposely bear false witness even knowing that the proof to your lie can be found in this very thread."

What?

The Sabbath and Sunday are not the same, I have made that clear several times. You are the liar.

You could post my words. You have not and you can not. You are the liar.

March 26, 2014 at 10:02 p.m.
conservative said...

Inquringmind:

You are just coming up with red herrings. Your latest has nothing to do with your earliest.

I have had nothing to say about the endings of Mark and I am aware of the endings.

Why don't you clarify what point you were trying to make earlier instead of trying to change the subject?

March 26, 2014 at 10:09 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

No, as a collection of Books

March 26, 2014 at 10:13 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"Sir, you are the one who challenged the Saturday Sabbath and now you are attempting to deny your own words, and you audaciously condemn me to death after your misrepresentations?"

And you are still a liar.

March 26, 2014 at 10:15 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

ConMan, you do know that you have contradicted yourself several times today?

March 26, 2014 at 10:21 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "Apocryphal and Laodiceans were "dropped" as you call it as well as others which were deemed as not inspired by God."

So you DO admit that they once existed in the Bible. How can that be if the Bible has always existed as his word?

Do you begin to see why your stance has totally fallen apart?

"You can call them scripture if you want just like you could for the Book of Mormon but you are mostly alone."

I've never once referred to the Book of Mormon in this forum. Not once. Why are you resorting to such lying all of a sudden?

I haven't even offered any opinion on the dropped writings that once were contained in past versions of the Bible. The only reason I brought them up, was to destroy your stance that the Bible is the "word of God."

"You don't realize that the Catholic Church and the Christian Church have different beliefs and doctrines."

How interesting. A little while ago, you were defending the Catholic Church as if you were a dedicated member.

Waffle, waffle, waffle. You're such a tap-dancer.

"And who was the Pope in 1 A.D.? Peter? It is preposterous to claim the Catholic Church was founded in 1 A. D."

That too is a verifiable fact. Registries have documented proof of every Pope in existence, beginning with Saint Peter in 1 A.D.

Look it up.

"Those whom God inspired to write New Testament Scripture after 1 A. D. were not Catholic."

I never said they were. I merely suggest that the Catholics, at some point before the 1600's wrote their own version of the Bible, along with King James ruling authority, and what you read today has been transcribed from it.

"Do you have any idea who Paul, and John and James and Peter and Timothy were. The word Catholic was not around at that time."

Sir, you're arguing semantics and utter ignorance. Of course there were Catholics. Ask any Catholic who knows the history of their church.

"Revelation was written around 94-96 A. D.. The cannon was closed with that book. It was God's last word to mankind."

Assuming there is a shred of truth to what you assert, I wonder why God would have decided 1900 years ago to stop communicating with us.

I'm sure you can explain it. There might even be Biblical scripture to explain it too...right?

" really need to get your head out of Wickedpedia."

I spend very little of my time on Wikipedia. You on the other hand apparently spend no time whatsoever researching that book you call "God's Word."

Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

March 26, 2014 at 10:24 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

As I detailed earlier today. Christians met and worshipped on Sunday the first day of the week not the Sabbath which was Saturday.

My words are plain to see on the matter.

This was practiced over 300 years before you claimed the Catholic Church changed the day to meet and worship. The Catholic Church had no say so over when the first Christians met and they will not have any say so when we Christians meet and worship today.

March 26, 2014 at 10:27 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"The Catholic Church had no say so over when the first Christians met and they will not have any say so when we Christians meet and worship today."

Conman, Catholics are Christians you dope.

March 26, 2014 at 10:30 p.m.
alprova said...

I previously wrote: "Sir, you are the one who challenged the Saturday Sabbath and now you are attempting to deny your own words, and you audaciously condemn me to death after your misrepresentations?"

Connie responded with: "And you are still a liar."

Hey...the proof is written in this thread, from your very own computer. You cannot begin to lay it off on anyone else.

I don't know whether to laugh at you or feel sorry for you, for you have purposely lied in this thread several times, I guess because you were losing ground in a debate you could not begin to tread water in.

You're utterly pathetic to even suggest that I did not know which day of the week the Sabbath Day falls on and that I came around to your point of view.

I was the first to post it today.

You spent half the day attempting to justify Sunday observance of the Sabbath. Then you act as if you were right all along.

Incredible, literally.

March 26, 2014 at 10:34 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

"So you DO admit that they once existed in the Bible. How can that be if the Bible has always existed as his word?"

No, they never were recognized by Christians as inspired by God. I put the word "dropped" in quotes to emphasize that.

You have a mindset that the Catholic Church is the authority and final word on these matters of Christianity.

You need to disabuse yourself of this error. Again, Christians met and worshipped on Sunday not Saturday. Early Christians NEVER called Sunday a Sabbath.

In the next few days I will show you why the Sabbath is not for Christians today.

March 26, 2014 at 10:39 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Con, do you seriously believe Catholics aren't Christian?

March 26, 2014 at 10:40 p.m.
alprova said...

GaussianInteger wrote: "Conman, Catholics are Christians you dope."

Oh no. That cannot be. The ONLY Christian on this planet is Connie.

He is the truth, the light, and the way to God, and damn anyone to Hell, who has a differing belief from that of his own.

The man is an island of his own.

It was nice to see him use his typewriter today, rather than just his mouse to cut and paste.

A pleasure as always Con-man. Maybe one day, I will allow you to score a point.

March 26, 2014 at 10:40 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

You are still the liar. You cannot post one lie of mine and that is why you just call me a liar without any example.

You really are a piece of work.

March 26, 2014 at 10:43 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "No, they never were recognized by Christians as inspired by God. I put the word "dropped" in quotes to emphasize that."

Sir, you do realize that you are not stating that those writings were not contained in a Bible. They were. That is an established fact. I asked you to explain their existence in past versions of that perfect, God inspired, Bible you keep harping about.

You can't, can you?

"You have a mindset that the Catholic Church is the authority and final word on these matters of Christianity."

You forget the very history of and what led to the founding of this nation. What do you think those who made their way here were fleeing?

"You need to disabuse yourself of this error. Again, Christians met and worshipped on Sunday not Saturday. Early Christians NEVER called Sunday a Sabbath."

You cannot be that stupid. Who cares, and who knows what they called anything 2,000 years ago? It's what Sunday is called TODAY that matters, and if I had a dollar for every so-called Christian who declared Sunday the Sabbath Day, I would have more money than Bill Gates, and you know that is true, or you are lying again.

"In the next few days I will show you why the Sabbath is not for Christians today."

Please...don't bother. You're the only one living in the clouds before your Earthly death.

March 26, 2014 at 10:47 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "You are still the liar. You cannot post one lie of mine and that is why you just call me a liar without any example."

I'm not the only one who has seen them. They are all right here in this thread.

"You really are a piece of work."

Hey...isn't it WAY past your bedtime? Guess you are the one who lacks peace tonight.

March 26, 2014 at 10:55 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

conman insists on dodging the contradiction of his own reality. Conman, read the passages and self-identify. Don't try to pass the buck backwards. Are you judging people, or not? Are you sin-less, or not?

As a classic example of your needing to go back to school: you say, "Revelation was written around 94-96 A. D. The cannon was closed with that book. It was God's last word to mankind."

First of all many scholars agree Revelation was written after the Jerusalem revolt, perhaps in the 90-100CE era, but James was accepted as scripture far later, perhaps in the late second century CE.. Revelation is still debated as to its place in the so-called canon.

Second of all, there was no formal Protestant canon until the confessions of the Protestant Reformation. The Catholic Church had defined its canon but you clearly object to the possibility God could have influenced their decisions. The Gospel was not written in the time of Paul, Paul was not even aware of any written Gospel but his own formulation of it.

Third, most of the Gospels were written in the 90CE -110CE if not a little later; Paul's letters predate them, written in the period 40-70ish CE.

If you are going to put yourself forward as a Biblical scholar, please get up to date on what is known. And don't relay on 30-40 year old (or older) concordances and commentaries.

I know all this uncertainty is going to cause you worry and cause you to look for a port in the storm, but that itself is a demonstration of the nature of faith.

March 26, 2014 at 11:01 p.m.
alprova said...

Hey, I just thought of something. If I were to inquire of the management of Hobby Lobby, which day of the week is the Sabbath, what answer does anyone believe I would get?

Saturday or Sunday?

Is there anyone who believes that I would hear Saturday, given that their stores are open on Saturday and closed on Sunday?

I guess they aren't really a Christian organization after all, and as Connie wrote, they should all be put to death.

That is what God stated, isn't it Connie? Or was that too, just another man's opinion?

March 26, 2014 at 11:02 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Connie thinks Martin Luther invented Christianity.

March 26, 2014 at 11:14 p.m.
Maximus said...

I don't think the woman depicted in Clay's secular progressive community activist cartoon would ever have to worry about contraception, because like Clay and Alprova.......SHE HAS A BIRTH CONTROL FACE! Lol!

March 27, 2014 at 7:22 a.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

I can cite many reasons why Christians do not worship on Saturday but it probably won't be necessary because you will not be able to get past my first point.

The point:

NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH.

If keeping the Sabbath was to be mandatory for the nations of gentiles who had very little knowledge of God then the commandment to keep the Sabbath would have to be set forth to them in the New Testament.

NO SUCH COMMANDMENT EXISTS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT WHERE THE DOCTRINES OF CHRISTIANITY AND SALVATION ARE SET FORTH.

Again, the first Christians both Jew and gentile, met and worshipped and observed the Lord's supper on Sunday, and Christians still do to this day.

March 27, 2014 at 8:06 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Only TROO Christians like ol' dead Fred Phelps, right?

March 27, 2014 at 8:24 a.m.
conservative said...

Inquiringmind:

You have shared with me a few times verses that you like on the subject of judging. I like all of the verses on judging myself.

Here are a few I will share with you:

This one is probably my favorite because Jesus, the judge of every man commanded it:

Jesus said:

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” John 7:24

We are to judge according to truth. I am sure you know that God's word is truth for Jesus said so. Isn't it wonderful to have a standard for truth?

Here is a great one, I am sure you know who said it:

But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come ? Matthew 3:7

Our modern day word for vipers is snakes. He called them snakes!

He exercised righteous judgment.

One more for now, again Jesus:

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Matthew 23:13

Jesus called these phony religious leaders of the Jews hypocrites.

Did you know that one of the frequent commenters here recently said that Jesus was not confrontational?

See if you can find some examples of righteous judgment.

March 27, 2014 at 8:40 a.m.
conservative said...

Hey l keith lu :

You still have not figured out if Phelps was a Christian or not?

Did you ever figure out if Hitler was a Christian or not?

March 27, 2014 at 8:46 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

Actually conserv, if you read your Christian History carefully you would know that many of the first Christians worshipped in the synagogues on saturday until they were kicked out. Perhaps you should read John and the Johannine letters more closely.

Beyond that, the record is dark in the NT as to when and how Christian congregations met to worship except in house churches. You have to go to 1st/2cd/3rd Century Christian writers such as Iranaeus, Tertullian, Tatian, and others who were the bishops and leaders of the incipient Catholic Church to find out what went on in the churches.

March 27, 2014 at 8:51 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Hitler was a catholic, according to his own writings. But of course you don't consider Catholics to be TROO Christians. How about ol' dead Fred?

March 27, 2014 at 9:01 a.m.
conservative said...

They went to the synagogues because that is where the Jews were in hopes of converting them to Christianity. They preached Jesus. Stephen was stoned to death by members of a synagogue for preaching Jesus.

You don't convert people to Christianity who are already Christians. You go where the lost are.

March 27, 2014 at 9:05 a.m.
conservative said...

l keith lu

I know Baptists who are not Christians, I know Methodist who are not Christians, I know Mormons who are not Christian, I know Catholics who are not Christians and on and on.

Calling yourself a Christian or being identified with a church or denomination does not make one a Christian.

You said that you were a member of a "church" and you certainly are not a Christian.

March 27, 2014 at 9:11 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"NO SUCH COMMANDMENT EXISTS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT WHERE THE DOCTRINES OF CHRISTIANITY AND SALVATION ARE SET FORTH."

So again, Conman, I guess the 10 Commandments are no longer valid? I also like how you are dodging PT's question:

"Con, do you seriously believe Catholics aren't Christian?"

So I will take it upon myself to answer for you. No, PT, ConMan doesn't believe that Catholics are Christians. I dealt with ignorance like ConMan's all my young life growing up Catholic here in the South. So-called "Christians" telling me I wasn't one of them because Catholics "Worship Mary" and because "Catholics don't get saved". Even when I explained that our beliefs were almost identical, it did not matter. I'll tell you, for a group of people that are so "loving and accepting", they sure know how to make a person feel like an outsider.

People like ConMan, who claim to be the most devout Christians, are probably more responsible for driving people away from Christianity more than any other source. They treat it like an exclusive club.

March 27, 2014 at 9:13 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

I suspect you only know of one: yourself. Though you seem to have a lot in common with Fred.

March 27, 2014 at 9:14 a.m.
conservative said...

Gaussianinteger:

Accepting or rejecting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior is an individual decision.

Blaming someone else for your unbelief will just not wash when you meet Jesus in judgment.

March 27, 2014 at 9:18 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

So if that's what is required, how do you know that those baptists, etc were not Christians?

March 27, 2014 at 9:19 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Gassy: Been there, have the T-shirt.

March 27, 2014 at 9:19 a.m.
conservative said...

l keith lu :

There you go into your grade school mode again. It nearly always comes to this with you.

Do you really think your judgment affects me?

March 27, 2014 at 9:22 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Meaning you can't answer? I'm just asking how you "know" those baptists, Methodists, etc were not Christians. Curious that you still call them baptists, etc. can't see how those labels can mean anything else.

March 27, 2014 at 9:30 a.m.
conservative said...

meaning you can't figure.

March 27, 2014 at 9:32 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Blaming someone else for your unbelief will just not wash when you meet Jesus in judgment."

Nor will it "wash" for you ConMan when judgment day comes for you.

And to get one thing clear. I didn't say your behavior makes people nonbelievers, it drives them away from organized religion.

Again, why not answer PT's question?

"Do you believe Catholics are Christians"?

March 27, 2014 at 9:34 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Meaning your "judgment" has no basis in anything other than your personal opinion?

March 27, 2014 at 9:34 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

It's a simple question, Connie. Why won't you answer?

March 27, 2014 at 9:36 a.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH."

Really? Aren't you the one who routinely applies every word in the Bible to ALL Christians? How many times have you completely ignored the context in which scripture is presented in the Bible, yet present it as if it came straight from God?

Luke 23:55-56 - "55 The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56 Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment."

"If keeping the Sabbath was to be mandatory for the nations of gentiles who had very little knowledge of God then the commandment to keep the Sabbath would have to be set forth to them in the New Testament."

You're no different from any other cherry-picker I have ever met. You'll cite the Old Testament all day long, until it becomes uncomfortable for whatever reason.

Christians being exempt from the Sabbath is a new low for a cherry-picker though.

Take a bow!! I hope you win that argument in the high court.

"Again, the first Christians both Jew and gentile, met and worshipped and observed the Lord's supper on Sunday, and Christians still do to this day."

You're grasping at straws on this one. How many Christians, outside of a couple of sects, if asked on the street what day of the week is the Sabbath Day, would respond with the correct day of the week?

You know you're FOS on this one, you're cornered, and you're idiotic attempt to deflect and deny is not working.

You would be more credible if you had just been honest from the get-go.

You seem to be the only person in this nation who does not know that the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath Day, or you do know it, and are simply arguing because you like it.

March 27, 2014 at 9:37 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

...and are simply arguing because you like it.

I think that nails it.

March 27, 2014 at 9:40 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Conman....a simple question from a simple man: Do you think Catholics are Christians? Hello?

March 27, 2014 at 9:48 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

PT, I am feeling like Lt. Kaffee (Tom Cruise) from A Few Good Men when he asks Col. Jessup (Jack Nicholson), "Did you order the code red"? The Col. dances around the question, just like ConMan is doing now, and we are getting the "You can't handle the truth" spill. But I suspect we may get the "You're GD right I did" type of response from ConMan if we keep asking.

March 27, 2014 at 9:57 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Besides, I feel that he may be thinking that if he truthfully answers your question, he knows he will lose his perceived alliance with you.

March 27, 2014 at 9:59 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Not getting that perceived alliance with me, but would surely like his response. (the man makes a bad recruiter for Christianity) ☟

March 27, 2014 at 10:05 a.m.
ibshame said...

"GaussianInteger said... I dealt with ignorance like ConMan's all my young life growing up Catholic here in the South. So-called "Christians" telling me I wasn't one of them because Catholics "Worship Mary" and because "Catholics don't get saved". Even when I explained that our beliefs were almost identical, it did not matter. I'll tell you, for a group of people that are so "loving and accepting", they sure know how to make a person feel like an outsider.

People like ConMan, who claim to be the most devout Christians, are probably more responsible for driving people away from Christianity more than any other source. They treat it like an exclusive club."

Been there done that. It was even worse if one attended a Catholic School where the majority of the teachers were nuns and priests. Of course, according to those good "Christians" the Nuns and Priests did not teach but instead spent their time indoctrinating the students. Too bad my chemistry and geometry teachers didn't understand that was their job description. LOL

I've always said people like Con-man drive more people away from religion than they draw people to religion.

March 27, 2014 at 10:10 a.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

I am breaking this up, I want people to read every word as I once again expose and correct you.

NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH.

"Really? Aren't you the one who routinely applies every word in the Bible to ALL Christians?"

No, that is just another fabrication by you. You lie.

"How many times have you completely ignored the context in which scripture is presented in the Bible, yet present it as if it came straight from God?"

Not once. Another lie by you. The Bible is the word of God and that is the truth. Jesus said, thy word is truth. You are an unbeliever and a known blasphemous liar, you have written :

"Jesus sinned"

"Jesus cannot be God"

March 27, 2014 at 10:15 a.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH.

regarding your misunderstanding of Scripture:

Luke 23:55-56 - "55 The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. 56 Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment."

These women were Jews who were given the Sabbath commandment under the covenant God made with Israel. These and many of Jesus disciples had not as yet understood who Jesus was and his mission.

Jesus taught His disciples the meaning of His death and resurrection AFTER He arose from the dead.

Every one of His disciples thought that Jesus death was final!

Your ignorance as well as your numerous evil blasphemies are astonishing!

Christians don't have it wrong when they meet and worship on Sunday. You are the one who is wrong.

March 27, 2014 at 10:28 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Is it possible Connie is pulling our rickshas?

March 27, 2014 at 10:29 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Still can't answer those questions con?

March 27, 2014 at 10:30 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Con, are you pulling a Lois Lerner?

March 27, 2014 at 10:34 a.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH.

"You're grasping at straws on this one. How many Christians, outside of a couple of sects, if asked on the street what day of the week is the Sabbath Day, would respond with the correct day of the week?"

Well, every Christian I know, knows the difference. The fact still remains, the first Christians met and worshipped on Sunday, Christians still do today and will continue to.

You are the one grasping at straws. You always try to change the discussion when you are caught in your errors and lies,

NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH.

March 27, 2014 at 10:38 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Dodge & Deflect. Connie would make a great politician.

March 27, 2014 at 10:39 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

Conser they went to the synagogue because they WERE Jews. Read your history. Your selective reading is getting long in tooth. BTW- Also attending the synagogues were "God-fearers," Gentiles who admired Judaism.

Your 10:28 reply pretty much shows you are re-writing and interpreting scripture to suit your own judgmental purposes, I guess the HS is sitting there having coffee with you...(to give you such clarity of vision).

So far conserv has yet to provide any detailed answer to any of the questions, shouldn't we just let him be rather than inflame him? Maybe as Luke 9:49-50 says, he will do some good in spite of himself and the person he influences will read and understand his folly.

March 27, 2014 at 10:43 a.m.
conservative said...

They preached Christianity, not Judaism to Jews in the synagogues.

Again, as I previously told you:

They went to the synagogues because that is where the Jews were in hopes of converting them to Christianity. They preached Jesus. Stephen was stoned to death by members of a synagogue for preaching Jesus.

You don't convert people to Christianity who are already Christians. You go where the lost are.

March 27, 2014 at 10:55 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Still doesn't explain how you can tell a baptist Christian from a baptist nonchristian.

March 27, 2014 at 10:58 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

He won't answer. Obviously has no faith in his convictions.

March 27, 2014 at 11:02 a.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH

."Christians being exempt from the Sabbath is a new low for a cherry-picker though."

The truth is the truth. Good luck convincing Christians not to meet and worship on Sunday.

The fact still remains,the first Christians met and worshipped on Sunday, Christians still do today and will continue to.

NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH

March 27, 2014 at 11:03 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

A bunch of anti-religious people claiming to know all there is to know about religion. Watch out for those lightning strikes.

March 27, 2014 at 11:09 a.m.

Birth control is as available as candy. The whole idea that the GOP, which is barely different than the Democrat Party, has some kind of "war on women" and is trying to keep women from getting birth control is ridiculous. Birth control isn't that expensive. Is that the cry baby skank, Sandra Fluke, reading the newspaper? LOL

March 27, 2014 at 11:11 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Hillary turned her blind eye towards her husbands war on women.

March 27, 2014 at 11:17 a.m.

Unless you need birth control for certain medical conditions, shut up and buy your own. Nearly everything liberal bitch about or have on their agenda has to do with sex, or sex related: abortion, sodomy, gay this and gay that, LGBT, birth control, and on and on. Nobody is stopping anybody from hooking up, getting an abortion, sodomizing someone, changing sex or dressing up like the opposite sex. Bogus issues, and as smokescreen.

March 27, 2014 at 11:19 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^^ much truth there

March 27, 2014 at 11:25 a.m.

Astounding how a woman would vote for her, or her husband.

March 27, 2014 at 11:30 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

As long as you have the same standard for ED meds.

March 27, 2014 at 11:42 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Oops. But you don't. So who decides? Should hobby lobby demand that men get a permission slip from their wives to get Cialis?

March 27, 2014 at 11:45 a.m.

Why is it an issue at all? The owners of Hobby Lobby believe contraception and abortion are immoral. End of story. They're not telling anyone how to conduct their private lives. Nobody has to work there if they don't want to. Buy all the contraception you want, work at place that wants to provide it. It's the same liberal crap, condemning an institution for what they stand for, and demanding that they adopt what you believe instead of you finding another place that's a better match for you. Or, changing the rules and doctrine to suit a particular agenda. Ridiculous.

March 27, 2014 at 11:55 a.m.

Liberals are all about control, and punishing those who don't agree with them, or at least ostracizing them.

March 27, 2014 at 11:57 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

lu: absolutely same standard for E.D. meds. Neither should be covered by insurance. Silly. Unless a valid reason for bc pill such as a treatment, etc.

March 27, 2014 at 11:59 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

You have not addressed the notion of ED. Of course, if the owners of hobby lobby can impose their religious beliefs on their workers, others can deny vaccines, sterilization, transfusion, surgery, etc. that okay with you?

March 27, 2014 at 12:01 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

That last comment was for zab, PT.

March 27, 2014 at 12:02 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

March 27, 2014 at 12:04 p.m.

It goes both ways,men or women. Nobody is imposing anything. Do they make their employees attend church on Sunday when they're not open? They're a retailer, that's it. They hire people, people come and go and that's what it is. Not wanting to providing birth control is not imposing their beliefs on anyone?

March 27, 2014 at 12:04 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

PT, I can understand your notion of ED meds not covered. But in the case of BC, the company must interfere in the privacy (in violation of HIPPA) to render judgment of "approved" vs " not approved" use of BC. That crosses a line in my book.

March 27, 2014 at 12:05 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

So you agree with PT about Viagra/Cialis, Zab?

March 27, 2014 at 12:08 p.m.
ibshame said...

From the "Peanuts" Gallery:

First up:

"TOES02800 said...aka Peppermint Patty

Hillary turned her blind eye towards her husbands war on women"

So since she didn't divorce her husband she supposedly turned her blind eye to his promiscuous behavior and this of course is based on your FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE INSIDE THE CLINTON MARRIAGE, RIGHT? Since all of Clinton's affairs were with willing participants would you have felt better if Hillary had been publicly denounced by her husband as did Mark Sanford, (the former Republican Governor of South Carolina) as he professed the love of his life was the woman who had so willingly entered into an affair with him?

And for more words of wisdom from the "Peanuts" Gallery we have this:

"zableedofisterix said...aka Woodstock

Astounding how a woman would vote for her, or her husband."

Astounding how you would blame the wife for something the husband did with women who were willing participants.

IF Hillary decides to run in 2016, it will be interesting to watch teabaggers, nutjobs and Repubs try to say she declared war on women because she didn't divorce her husband. LOL

March 27, 2014 at 12:08 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH"

Again, ConMan, so the 10 Commandments are null and void by the New Testament?

And I will take your silence and downright refusal to answer PT's question as a confirmation of my previous thought. You don't believe Catholics are Christians. That makes you a heretic.

March 27, 2014 at 12:09 p.m.

Yes.

March 27, 2014 at 12:10 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Birth control isn't that expensive."

It is if your insurance doesn't cover it. Example, my dog (before she passed away a couple of years ago) required a medication that was filled at CVS (the same medication is prescribed to humans). It cost me 30.00. The identical medication, if it was prescribed to me, would have cost me 5.00 under my insurance.

PT, Viagra and Cialis are very expensive when not covered by insurance. Reproductive health is covered by my employer and most others, I don't see why you guys feel it shouldn't be.

March 27, 2014 at 12:17 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

If hobby lobby says they won't pay for Viagra, I might believe they were sincere. But they haven't. Why not, do you think?

March 27, 2014 at 12:19 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Lu, the entire "privacy" issue is quirky to me.

March 27, 2014 at 12:20 p.m.
conservative said...

GaussianInteger said...

"NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH"

Again, ConMan, so the 10 Commandments are null and void by the New Testament?

And I will take your silence and downright refusal to answer PT's question as a confirmation of my previous thought. You don't believe Catholics are Christians. That makes you a heretic.

===============================

Your "judgment" does not trouble me at all.

Please feel free to constantly post your statement.

March 27, 2014 at 12:31 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

So con, why no answer?

March 27, 2014 at 12:35 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Ok ConMan, forget PT's question. Answer my question, ARE THE 10 COMMANDMENTS NULL AND VOID BY THE NEW TESTAMENT?

March 27, 2014 at 12:39 p.m.
conservative said...

"NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH"

March 27, 2014 at 12:45 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

I'm done with the coward.

March 27, 2014 at 12:51 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

I take your skipping around the question as a "yes". You're a biblical fraud. I'm done with you also.

March 27, 2014 at 1:17 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

No one said anything about divorcing him. that's just you making sh!t up again.

However, if she is such a staunch advocate for the well being of women, why didn't she speak up about it at least? Should she have stood up for Herman Cain?

March 27, 2014 at 1:23 p.m.
conservative said...

"NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH"

March 27, 2014 at 1:23 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH

While you are desperately searching for some Bible verses to prove that Christians were commanded to observe the Jewish Sabbath, I can tell you that you want find any.

However, pay close attention to the what was required and what was prohibited on the Jewish Sabbath. Note also the death penalty for those breaking the laws of the Sabbath.

The fact still remains, the first Christians met and worshipped on Sunday, Christians still do today and will continue to.

NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH

In the meantime I will post some of your words that you eagerly want me to.

March 27, 2014 at 1:43 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

State Sen. Yee D-CA...same deal....You will have to look hard to find coverage of this story.

March 27, 2014 at 1:47 p.m.
conservative said...

Inquiringmind: :

Isn't it wonderful to share Gods word? Did you know that some people, even those who profess to be a Christian actually claim that we don't have the word of God. Astonishing!

Well, you brought up judging so I want to continue with the topic myself.

Do you have any thoughts on one of my favorite where Jesus said? :

"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” John 7:24

Like myself you may have wondered how so many only know one verse about judging and this isn't it.

Anyway, here is another where Jesus is confrontational and harsh and judgmental :

“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.’ Fools and blind! Matthew 23:16-17

Then poor duped Liberals come along and say such nonsense as "Jesus just loved everybody and He wasn't judgmental and He wasn't confrontational." To quote Jesus "Fools and blind!"

I am so glad you brought the subject of judging up.

March 27, 2014 at 4:52 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

I found this humorous, GOP and Conservatives can bash away.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/50ml9u/jesus-christ-superstore

March 27, 2014 at 5:20 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

You love stirring it up, eh Gassy?

March 27, 2014 at 5:30 p.m.
conservative said...

Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova wrote the following:

"Jesus sinned"

"Jesus cannot be God"

"I do not fear the Lord and nobody is ever going to convince me to fear God's "wrath."

And again, you fail to include the scripture I cited that proves that Jesus himself did not consider himself to be perfect and without sin.

"The Bible never has been the word of God and you will never make it so."

Jesus said:

For by thy words thou shalt be justified , and by thy words thou shalt be condemned . Matthew 12:

Jesus said:

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24

March 27, 2014 at 7:14 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie, you don't have to justify a thing to me. You will have to justify what you do and believe to God.

You sit around in here all day and condemn people to Hell for being homosexual, based on Old Testament scripture, written and intended for ancient Jewish people, yet you excuse the Fourth Commandment as being non-applicable to modern day folk.

You're a complete idiot. You're so full of crap that it oozes from each and every one of your pores.

You spent all of your credibility in this thread. You have none left.

You have a child's understanding of the Bible.

But carry on...

March 27, 2014 at 7:22 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "They preached Christianity, not Judaism to Jews in the synagogues."

Now you're rewriting the Bible. You're utterly delusional.

March 27, 2014 at 7:27 p.m.
conservative said...

"You sit around in here all day and condemn people to Hell for being homosexual,"

You are lying again. Anyone can scroll up and see that you lied again.

March 27, 2014 at 7:38 p.m.
alprova said...

z-man wrote: "Liberals are all about control, and punishing those who don't agree with them, or at least ostracizing them."

It's always absolutes with you, isn't it?

Okay, I'm an employer. I'm a Scientologist. I refuse to pay the premiums from my pocket on behalf of any employee for blood transfusions, pain medicines, or any surgeries.

Are you going to support me in the same way you do Hobby Lobby?

Sure you are.

I'm just expressing MY religious freedom...right?

March 27, 2014 at 7:41 p.m.
conservative said...

"based on Old Testament scripture, written and intended for ancient Jewish people,"

Another lie. God's moral laws are for everyone and for all time. He also condemns Homosexuality in the New Testament as well.

March 27, 2014 at 7:43 p.m.
conservative said...

"yet you excuse the Fourth Commandment as being non-applicable to modern day folk."

NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH

March 27, 2014 at 7:45 p.m.
conservative said...

"You're a complete idiot."

You're judgment is wrong, from a desperate man who can't defend his position.

Hateful too.

March 27, 2014 at 7:48 p.m.
conservative said...

"You have a child's understanding of the Bible."

Coming from a blasphemous liar who has written such evil as:

"Jesus sinned"

"Jesus cannot be God"

March 27, 2014 at 7:51 p.m.
conservative said...

"Now you're rewriting the Bible. You're utterly delusional."

Another lie and poor effort as well.

March 27, 2014 at 7:53 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH"

"COMMANDED"? That is debatable, but Paul certainly shared his opinion about it:

"Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good." Romans 7:12

March 27, 2014 at 7:57 p.m.
conservative said...

"You sit around in here all day and condemn people to Hell for being homosexual,"

You have judged and condemned yourself. You wrote every word below:

"Jesus sinned"

"Jesus cannot be God"

"The Bible never has been the word of God and you will never make it so"

"Face the truth for once in your life. God is a murderer and a mass-murderer at that...IF THE BIBLE IS ACCURATE."

"My belief that the Bible is not the word of God in no manner is equal to holding any contempt for it."

"If the Bible is God's word, you have on record, his admission that he took the lives of what must have been millions of innocent lives in a fit of rage"

"The idea that we are to accept a mass-murderer as an object of worship doesn't reflect well upon Christians at all. If he murdered nearly every human on the planet, God is far more heinous than Hitler. Yet Christians are to willfully worship him without question. Why?"

March 27, 2014 at 8:01 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

ConMan, you have dug yourself a hole. Your mindless rambling is not going to allow you to escape. The only thing at this point that is going to display even an iota of civility and Christ-like behavior is for you to come back down to Earth and just say, "Hey guys, I screwed up. I need to go back and actually read the Bible to clear up some misconceptions I have. And Catholics are not Christians." Then get back to us in a few days.

March 27, 2014 at 8:01 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "While you are desperately searching for some Bible verses to prove that Christians were commanded to observe the Jewish Sabbath, I can tell you that you want find any."

I can too. It's because some of you so-called Christians make up your own crap as you go along.

Neither God nor his Son are quoted in the Bible condemning homosexuality, yet you consider written scripture to apply to modern man. Where is the homosexual condemnation that applies to the Gentiles?

"However, pay close attention to the what was required and what was prohibited on the Jewish Sabbath. Note also the death penalty for those breaking the laws of the Sabbath."

Jewish Sabbath my ass. There IS NOT ONE WORD WRTTEN IN THE NEW OR THE OLD TESTAMENT THAT CHANGES THE DAY OF THE WEEK WE ARE TO SET ASIDE AND KEEP HOLY!!

"The fact still remains, the first Christians met and worshipped on Sunday, Christians still do today and will continue to."

That is NOT a fact. It is a Heretic LIE!!

"NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH"

The word "Christian" does not appear in the Old Testament so much as one time. The word Christian only appears THREE times in the New Testament.

Acts 11:26 - (partial) "The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch."

Acts 26:28 - "Then Agrippa said to Paul, “Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?”..."

1 Peter 4:16 - "However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name."*

Based on this little nugget of truism, how can you begin to claim that the Bible dictates exempts a damn thing to Christians?

March 27, 2014 at 8:07 p.m.
conservative said...

GaussianInteger said...

"NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH"

"COMMANDED"? That is debatable, but Paul certainly shared his opinion about it:

"Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good." Romans 7:12

March 27, 2014 at 7:57 p.m

===============================

Are you presenting animal sacrifices on the Sabbath as prescribed by law? Are you doing any cooking or work on the Sabbath, you and your household as prohibited by Sabbath law.

March 27, 2014 at 8:07 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

Nope not letting you run from the subject:

"NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH"

March 27, 2014 at 8:11 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "God's moral laws are for everyone and for all time. He also condemns Homosexuality in the New Testament as well."

God nor his Son condemn homosexuality ANYWHERE in the Bible. NOWHERE!!

Mortal men who wrote that which is written in the Bible offered their opinions, and nothing more.

You will not find one quotation FROM GOD OR JESUS, condemning homosexuality, and I have challenged you REPEATEDLY to prove that statement to be false.

You are a pathetic bearer of false witness, especially when it comes to what can be found in a Bible. You cherry-pick EVERYTHNG, take it completely out of the context in which it is presented.

If being like you is what it takes to be a Christian, sign me up to worship Satan. You are the most disgusting example of a religious person I have ever encountered.

What's worse, is you have no shame whatsoever, and a toddler's understanding of what you read in the Bible.

March 27, 2014 at 8:16 p.m.
conservative said...

GaussianInteger said...

"NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH"

"COMMANDED"? That is debatable, but Paul certainly shared his opinion about it:

"Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good." Romans 7:12

=====================================

I am a Christian, I am not under the law:

"Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God." Romans 7:4

March 27, 2014 at 8:16 p.m.
conservative said...

Attention Mr. Anthony Provancher, a.k.a. alprova:

Careful, you may have a stroke, and get your judgment tonight.

March 27, 2014 at 8:19 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE CHRISTIANS COMMANDED TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH"

Nowhere in the Bible does it EXEMPT a soul on this Earth from observing the Sabbath Day.

You've been asked whether or not your stance that the Sabbath only applies to Jewish people, excludes Gentiles from being required to honor the Ten Commandments.

Why no answer to that question? It's a simple question. It only requires a simple "Yes" or a "No."

March 27, 2014 at 8:22 p.m.
fairmon said...

There is nothing more admiral than a humble christian that influences others with the way they live without so much trying to impress others with their ability to quote scripture from their favorite version of the bible.

March 27, 2014 at 8:29 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

And then there are some that act like TV preachers....loathsome individuals.

March 27, 2014 at 8:34 p.m.
alprova said...

Connie wrote: "Careful, you may have a stroke, and get your judgment tonight."

I know you'd like to believe that you so much as raise my heart rate a beat per minute, but that is not the case at all.

You're cornered like a rat. Everyone who has followed this wonderful exchange knows you're out of a thing to offer to bolster your stances.

Crickets are chirping, anxiously awaiting sensible answers coming from you, that will NEVER be forthcoming.

You Sir, are a total idiot, and you're the only person who doesn't know it.

March 27, 2014 at 9:09 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"I am a Christian, I am not under the law:"

ConMan, Paul also shared this:

"Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law." Romans 3:31

You're a fake, a phony, an anti-christ, a blasphemer and the bible says you will spend an eternity in hell. Good Night.

March 27, 2014 at 9:30 p.m.
adolphochs said...

I'm against government subsidized and mandated abortion services but I confess to fanaticizing about what a better paper we'd have, had Bennett's mother ...........................

March 28, 2014 at 6:42 p.m.
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