Hobby Lobby

HEALTH CARE IS FOR COMMIES AND SATAN WORSHIPERS.

The morning after pill, and birth control pills and breast feeding.

All of them reduce the chance of ovulation (a woman producing an egg) and, if she does ovulate, decrease the chance of an embryo implanting in the uterine wall.

Aside from rendering the uterine lining less receptive to an embryo (and often unreceptive to an embryo) breast feeding causes uterine contractions which can expel the embryo from the womb prior to implantation.

One can argue that life begins at fertilization. Fine.

But pregnancy does not begin until implantation occurs.

An abortion is the disruption of a pregnancy.

Breast feeding, birth control pills and the morning after pill do not disrupt implantation.

Therefore, birth control pills and the morning after pill (which is really just a birth control pill at a high dose) do not cause abortions.

If Hobby Lobby is following the Christian beliefs of their owners, then why did God allow breast feeding?

Oh wait, why am I writing this? Since when do we let science or logic get in the way of reasoning?

After all, if a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she can just pretend sex is legitimate rape. Yeah, that should shut that whole thing down.

The question is not freedom of religion as some insist, churches should not be tax exempt since they function as a business. The issue is should the federal government be dictating which benefits a business will will provide and how? There is a difference in this bold step and assuring compliance with regulations by the DOL, FLSA, OSHA, EPA, DOT, IRS and several other business regulations. Each time the government becomes a little more involved in business decisions work place regulations beyond the current worker protection agencies above we move a little closer to being a socialist country where government owns all the businesses like Chavez in Venezuela. Except, in the U.S. the government will run the business without nationalizing them.

How many people realize that any purchase of a product or service already includes no less than 33% additional cost due to taxes and other government imposed cost to the provider? Suggesting insurers or anyone else will provide something "free" is a misleading lie.

The republicans are stupid. Their best position would be to turn Obama and his minions lose. Raise the debt ceiling and approve every proposal regardless of how irresponsible. The results would either be good showing they acted in the best interest of the country or the results would be as expected and the democrats would be history leaving an opportunity for Libertarians. Obama is in a hole and wants to dig his way out, throw him a shovel, when in a hole the first rule is "quit digging".

Freedom schmeedom.

How many government programs would survive if we the taxpayers could pay ourselves $1 instead of paying the bureaucrats $10? If contraceptives were something you could add $1 to Form 1040 to pay for, would you add the dollar or not?

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/483175_585567384802110_1965582953_n.jpg

Here's the problem with merchants getting into the political arena - They are way out of bounds with the relationship that they claim to have with EITHER employees or patrons. Chik-Fil-A is a perfect example! The relationship between Chik-Fil-A and their customers is that the restaurant provides chicken sandwiches for consumption, in exchange for money. THAT is the extent of the relationship! Similarly, the chain provides compensation for employees to hand the chicken sandwich to the customer and put the money in the register. That is the extent of THAT relationship! On what basis does Chik-Fil-A or any other chain like Hobby Lobby, presume to intrude into the personal lives of others by attempting to control their personal decisions???

Too funny MTJohn and absolutely on target.

The Green family simply wants to run their private business and provide benefits for their employees that's consistent with their values. What is wrong with that? More government intervention...wanna know what fascism looks like?

fairmon wrote: "The question is not freedom of religion as some insist, churches should not be tax exempt since they function as a business."

Yes they do and I agree that they should be taxed accordingly.

"The issue is should the federal government be dictating which benefits a business will will provide and how?"

In a stable economy, we wouldn't be having very much debate over benefits. Why? Because competitive forces would then dictate that employers would offer them to recruit and retain a workforce.

Employers years ago started the system of offering benefits and now they are expected. Is it right to demand them of employers?

That is the real question that should be on the table.

"There is a difference in this bold step and assuring compliance with regulations by the DOL, FLSA, OSHA, EPA, DOT, IRS and several other business regulations."

If left to their own desires in a depressed economy, where employers are free to pick and choose because there are a lack of jobs, I shudder to think of the working environment that some employers could and would offer.

"Each time the government becomes a little more involved in business decisions work place regulations beyond the current worker protection agencies above we move a little closer to being a socialist country where government owns all the businesses like Chavez in Venezuela. Except, in the U.S. the government will run the business without nationalizing them."

Harp, if you truly believe that, then I suggest that you go down to Venezuela and attempt to open a business, hire some of the locals and report back to us a year from now and illustrate all the valid comparisons.

I don't think your list will be very long at all.

"How many people realize that any purchase of a product or service already includes no less than 33% additional cost due to taxes and other government imposed cost to the provider?"

Be that as it may, as someone who is in business, I am much more comfortable being in business right where I am and have no issue whatsoever with ponying up taxes, fees, and complying with a few regulations in order to be allowed to prosper as much as my customers will allow me to earn, without someone breathing over my neck.

"Suggesting insurers or anyone else will provide something "free" is a misleading lie."

You're looking at this thing the same way that some look at a half-filled glass of water as being half-empty.

Most people would offer that they work for and therefore earn the benefits that make up part of the compensation packages that they receive.

Falmon does not want a president he needs a dictator to run every aspect of his life. That is how incompetent liberals are in running their own life.

AndrewLohr wrote: "If contraceptives were something you could add $1 to Form 1040 to pay for, would you add the dollar or not?"

What a novel idea. I would rather put a check in that box for $3.00, even if it DID increase my taxes by that amount, to pay for free contraceptives to be placed in every single public restroom, in order to boost responsibility among those who are sexually active, which I am convinced would reduce abortion, rather than to award such funds, as I always do every year, to fund the placing of election ads by do-nothing politicians whom we all grow tired of watching on television.

patriot1 wrote: "The Green family simply wants to run their private business and provide benefits for their employees that's consistent with their values. What is wrong with that?"

Nothing at all. Let them open up a new church. As a business enterprise that apparently has no problem taking money from many people that most assuredly do not always embrace their value system, what gives them any right to suddenly attempt to become self-righteous when it comes to health care benefits that they provide to their employees?

Chik-Fil-A at least makes every attempt to hire only employees that embrace their value system, but they too are banking profits derived from the public that for the most part, does not give two hoots about their values.

If their belief system were as deep as some of these business owners would like to have us believe, then you would think that they would take more care to assure that the money they rake in, came from people with the same value system that they embrace.

"Would you like a little hypocrisy sauce sprinkled on your sandwich today?"

eym_sirius, your 8:30 am post was absolutely on target. Well stated.

Funny, MTJohn. Reminds me of another: If men could get pregnant, birth control and abortion would be free, legal and private in all circumstances.

You nailed it eym_sirius. The Hobby Lobby apologists will not respond to your post because they all know you are exactly, irrefutably correct.

Oh, and you might want to go here to see a few more businesses to consider as you make your secular buying choices...

http://www.christiansinbusiness.com/church/77/brainerd-baptist-church/directory

Wonder what will be mandated next? Maybe a certain salute?

I thought it was Sieg Heil! but I guess that's already taken.

I am sure that David Green, the 70 year old owner and CEO of Hobby Lobby, number 79 on the Forbes 400 Wealthiest People List and worth $4.5 Billion Dollars could give a rats behind what Clay The Mental Case Military Brat Doddler thinks about his company or his Chritianity. By the way, Hobby Lobby employs 22,000 people in the United States. Sounds like Mr. Green had a great business idea and is living the dream. That is the example we should be talking about, an American success story and not some stupid contraception topic. Aren't birth control pills extremely cheap and why should my tax money be used to pay for them?

joneses said... "Falmon does not want a president he needs a dictator to run every aspect of his life. That is how incompetent liberals are in running their own life."

joneses... Fairmon is twice the man you are (well, he has twice as many names). I was going to blame your reading comprehension skills for this little misunderstanding, but I think his (their) writing skills are the problem. He (they) has (have) snared you in his (their) formidable noncommittal libertarian lasso! He (they) hate(s) your freedom!

eym_sirius said... On what basis does Chik-Fil-A or any other chain like Hobby Lobby, presume to intrude into the personal lives of others by attempting to control their personal decisions???

They have made no such attempt. They have merely asked the federal government not to force them to provide optional medications which sustain optional sexual profligacy. Pay for your own damned morning-after pills. Stop forcing employers to pass on the costs to their customers. Nothing is free. Liberalism is idiocy. Its hidden costs have bankrupted our country, financially and morally. Your “arguments” are nothing more than ludicrous pandering to perpetual adolescents.

Premature_Jack... that would be the same salute that you and your friends give when you yell "white power! white power!" LOL

Two of you have transformed your arguments that are not even part of the debate.

Nobody is asking for taxpayer funded contraceptives. Nobody is even asking for free contraceptives.

Hobby Lobby and others are requesting that they be allowed to prohibit their insurance carriers for their employer sponsored health care plans from providing birth control benefits from the policies offered their employees.

Try arguing the subject at hand, rather than arguing something that isn't a part of the equation.

whats_wrong_with_the_world said... "Your “arguments” are nothing more than ludicrous pandering to perpetual adolescents."

Said the man with the "funny" picture of the President which makes him look silly. Please continue, I am motivated to take your graffiti seriously.

Hee Hee - I can just imagine Mr. Green trying to cram that $4.5 billion through the eye of a needle. I can also imagine his presumed gated enclave in flames and his capitals of knic-knack consumption in ruins.

Rebus' answer to the birth control issue:

Jack_Dennis said... Marley's Ghost potcat: "I never met a chick that didn't think she gave the greatest head in the world. You've got a long list of challengers, sweetie." December 13, 2012 at 3:14 p.m.

That post makes me shudder. Sounds like a serial killer truck driver, or something. Complete objectification of women. Like all women are competing to be sluts. No wonder he's trying to run from his own words.

Magnificent obsession

Nothing is free. Idiots.

librul: Mr Green must be a very bad fellow, huh? Being successful and all. Lots to hate on.

"Ludicrous pandering to perpetual adolescents"?? Damn,that's ALMOST profound!

JayZ big big big Obama supporter say....Know wut im sayin niggas...i gitz a biatch prego dog know wut im sayin i noes i beez goins to Planned Parenthoods to payz dat $250 fo da abortions. Know wut im sayin i beez holdin da biatches hand and consolin herz in da waitin rooms just likes da pimp Obama wud do. Writn dat $250 checx hurts a brother butcha gotz to do wut ya has ta do. Know wut im sayin I cantz affords no kids up in da hizzie. Represntz Hobby Lobby. Im out. Hopes and Changes homey.

Last week, President Barack Obama said that under his fiscal cliff deal “more than 98% of Americans and 97% of small businesses will not see their income taxes go up.” But according to new figures from the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, that’s not so—by a long shot. In fact, the income taxes of 70% of Americans will rise. Middle-class workers making between $30,000 and $200,000 will pay up to $1,784 more, a larger percentage increase than for those earning between $200,000 and $500,000.

Perhaps The Chairman doesn't have the backs of the middle-class.

Jack_Dennis said... "I never met a chick that didn't think she gave the greatest head in the world..." December 13, 2012 at 3:14 p.m.

Much to Premature_Jack's elation.

eyemdelirius is a half wit. You are talking as if all power and authority emits from Obama. Hobby Lobby must submit to anything that the Progressive terrorists dictate.

They tried this crap in the Soviet Union and China and Cuba and North Korea and it didn't work. Obama can't own everything.

And once again alprova shows total ignorance. No wonder he has had so many personal disasters. If alprova wants to control Hobby Lobby, let him buy them out. Idiot.

"How many people realize that any purchase of a product or service already includes no less than 33% additional cost due to taxes and other government imposed cost to the provider?"

alprova responded with...

Be that as it may, as someone who is in business, I am much more comfortable being in business right where I am and have no issue whatsoever with ponying up taxes, fees, and complying with a few regulations in order to be allowed to prosper as much as my customers will allow me to earn, without someone breathing over my neck.

fairmon responds with....

Any business owner able to pass the cost on to the consumer would agree with you. It is the naive consumer that is being taken. I realize most regulations are necessary and some need to be enforced better which is different than dictating to a business how they will spend their capital.

fiarmon posteded...

"Each time the government becomes a little more involved in business decisions beyond the current worker protection agencies above we move a little closer to being a socialist country where government owns all the businesses like Chavez in Venezuela. Except, in the U.S. the government will run the business without nationalizing them."

alprova responds with...

if you truly believe that, then I suggest that you go down to Venezuela and attempt to open a business, hire some of the locals and report back to us a year from now and illustrate all the valid comparisons.

fiarmon comment...

I am not suggesting that is a good thing. The businesses are in shambles with the government operating them. I am saying the more our government intervenes and dictates to a business how and for what they will spend their capital the more we become similar but not like those countries that nationalize. This seemingly small step opens the door and our politicians will run through it. Our government doesn't take ownership except in rare cases but can take as much of the profit as they want by taxing.

You own a business, I assume you are in compliance with all the regulations issued by various local, state and federal agencies. Are you comfortable with being told how much you can profit or what you have to do with some of your profits?

Some of the comments of alprova and others point to the sickness that has destroyed our country. This comment reflects the sickness of many American's. Hobby Lobby is not "taking" money from anyone. They provide a product and service that people want. This thought process by alprova is why America will evaporate withing the next decade.

"Let them open up a new church. As a business enterprise that apparently has no problem taking money from many people that most assuredly do not always embrace their value system, what gives them any right to suddenly attempt to become self-righteous when it comes to health care benefits that they provide to their employees?"

Maybe alprova, eyem and the other half-wits should lobby Obama to have a message placed on every object sold by HL (much like cancer warnings on cigs) "Caution, the product you have just purchased does not finance the killing of babies as dictated by Obama and Obamacare"

So, JonRoss and WWWTW: should Hobby Lobby provide its employees with coverage that includes Viagra and Cialis? If so, why?

Life Schmife

Religious Freedom Schmeligious Schmeedom

I feel a Nobel Peace Prize coming for Clay. Maybe he and Dr. Brown can get together and blame Hobby Lobby for global warming and get a twofer.

fairmon inquired: "Are you comfortable with being told how much you can profit or what you have to do with some of your profits?"

I'm not told how much I can profit. The sky is the limit. After I pay my taxes each quarter, I can do with the vast majority of the money I have left over in the bank, whatever I choose to do with it, so long as it is legal.

Life is good.

ike what HL does is not my business or yours. And it certainly is not the business of the bastard Obama. Just how much control over our lives are you willing to give Washington ?

A government strong enough to force taxpayers or a private company to pay for your birthcontrol and abortions is strong enough to force you to use birthcontrol and have abortions.

How about a law that requires all employers who provide health care coverage to also cover contraceptive services . . .

And a rider on that bill which requires welfare mothers to USE contraception.

If you're going to meddle in peoples' beliefs then let's make it fair for everyone.

So you don't have an answer, Jon Ross? Afterall, you are suggesting the Hobby Lobby can make these decisions for their employees.

Just how much control over our lives are you willing to give Washington

I am not seeing anywhere that Washington is making people use birth control or have abortions.

Rebus: Equating getting filthy rich with "being a success" is what's wrong with the capitalist world. Heaping a dollop of religion on top as though gawd and jeebus endorse the concept makes it doubly disgusting. Religionist billionaires are the scum of the earth who deserve no defense.

Jonas Salk created the polio vaccine and never got rich - didn't want to. HE was a success.

To wit:

"When news of the vaccine's success was made public on April 12, 1955, Salk was hailed as a "miracle worker," and the day "almost became a national holiday." His sole focus had been to develop a safe and effective vaccine as rapidly as possible, with no interest in personal profit. When he was asked in a televised interview who owned the patent to the vaccine, Salk replied: "There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?"

Jonas Salk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gotta love these Christian causes celebre. "We're being persecuted for being good!" LOL

LFO thinking God wants to help them beat Heritage.

Chick-fil-A not selling grease to Christian children on Sunday.

Hobby Lobby probably has a DIY diaphragm kit they're trying to sell

Just keep pushing those moderates our way! Isn't it about time for the teabaggers to split into ideologically purer, more well defined sects? LMAO

ike, whether or not HL provides erectile medication or abortions is none of my business, your business, or Obama's business.

serius said...

On what basis does Chik-Fil-A or any other chain like Hobby Lobby, presume to intrude into the personal lives of others by attempting to control their personal decisions???

I have seen nothing where either company has attempted to intrude on the personal lives of employees any more than the government has intruded on theirs. Employees have the option of leaving an employer and customers have the option of not patronizing the business, neither business is a monopoly nor is either essential.

My advice to employers is to place an amount in a health care reimbursement account which complies with the AHCA and allow employees to use the money toward the purchase of their own health care or use it to pay the tax with no further involvement on the part of the employer. Smart employers will get as far away from the health care issue as possible, many are already taking this step while some are reducing the weekly hours to less than 32.

The intent of the PPAHCA is excellent but it is without a doubt one of the worst written convoluted pieces of crap to ever come out of congress. Go to Thomas Congressional Library and read it. It was passed in a rush with markings in the margins etc. It is a good example that putting something on the fast track is a head long rush to disaster.

So why do you support Hobby Lobby being able to dictate what health coverage its employees have access to?

For most my reproductive years I paid for my birth control out of pocket. Not covered at all. Like it was on par with a face lift or tummy tuck. That would not have been true had I needed insulin, or high blood pressure medicine. And yet, Viagra was covered immediately when it hit the market. So it's okay for someone else to assume I am using birth control for recreational purposes but Viagra is used to treat an affliction? As long as this attitude persists (someone else passing judgment on what decisions are made between doctor and patient) all coverage should be available and not under the "moral scrutiny" of an employer.

ike why do you support Obama being able to dictate what beliefs people must have ?

Show me evidence that Obama is doing this.

alprova said...

I'm not told how much I can profit. The sky is the limit. After I pay my taxes each quarter, I can do with the vast majority of the money I have left over in the bank, whatever I choose to do with it, so long as it is legal.

That is as it should be. The government is telling some employers through the AHCA and the contraception requirement what they must do with some of their profits. Just a small crack in the door but some politicians will see it as an opportunity for more dictating to businesses. This goes beyond regulations which are essential for the well being and fair treatment of employees and assuring competition.

If it weren't for government "intrusion" Hobby Lobby would be paying their employees $2.00 an hour.

Government "intrusion" abolished slavery.

The only intrusion is Hobby Lobby injecting itself between workers and their doctors to force their belief system on others.

ike I am really weary of your ilk. This entire discussion is about Obama requiring the owners of HL, people who took many risks, and worked incredibly hard, to build something to abandon their beliefs. It is theirs. You and obastard did not take the risks or do the hard work. And now you and obastard want them to flush their personal beliefs down the crapper.

You have not shown anything that suggests that Obama wants to dictate people's beliefs. Try again.

Obama isn't making anyone take birth control. Or have abortions.

Have a problem with tax money being used for such? (Which is a stretch?) Fine: I believe the use of drones is immoral, and yet my tax money goes to pay for them. Is that Obama imposing beliefs on me? Of course not.

“Fairmon” said: “Each time the government becomes a little more involved in business decisions work place regulations beyond the current worker protection agencies above we move a little closer to being a socialist country where government owns all the businesses like Chavez in Venezuela.”

Attitudinally, I believe Hobby Lobby’s owners and CEO David Green have a lot in common with Venezuela’s President Hugo Chavez – starting with an overblown ego.

And may I ask if you’ve ever been concerned or reflected on the possibility that every time a government places the rights of a CEO or corporation above the rights of a worker or the citizenry, it might be moving more toward a corporatocracy, especially in America?

After all, in America, big corporate money already dominates U.S. elections, has stronger political representation than most members of its citizenry, is already creating “ready-made” laws for many of our lawmakers, has a history of utilizing its profits to orchestrate campaigns to suppress the voting rights of certain sectors of our citizenry, plays a prominent role in creating and establishing our national defense policies, and is constantly demanding special treatment and special exclusions when it comes to paying their fair share of taxes.

But maybe you agree with these CEOs that the rights, souls, and preferences of their workers are expendable and it’s perfectly natural that a CEO's religious views be given priority.

The only thing we need to see from Obama to prove he is the antichrist is for him to perform a miracle. If he can solve the debt and energy problems, that will pretty much nail him.

ike you are proving to be as ignorant as alprova. The issue at hand is not taxpayer money going to fund abortions. The issue is that obastard is forcing private individuals to fund the abortions through his dictates.

Just saw some stories on non-regime sites that Reid and Pelosi will support Obama raising the national debt limit without consent of Congress. That is clearly not Constitutional. Expect tanks in the streets unless these Progressive bastards come to their senses real soon.

fairmon wrote: "The government is telling some employers through the AHCA and the contraception requirement what they must do with some of their profits."

That is NOT true. The AHCA sets forth coverage and expenditures that INSURANCE COMPANIES must offer and pay for on behalf of policy holders.

Employers are attempting to intervene in that process, strictly due to religious beliefs.

Just a small crack in the door but some politicians will see it as an opportunity for more dictating to businesses. This goes beyond regulations which are essential for the well being and fair treatment of employees and assuring competition.

Private individuals have to fund the military. Yet the military uses that money for what some think is immoral activities. What is the difference?

The CEO of a company has no more right to dictate what is covered by an employee's health insurance than to dictate how an employee spends his or her salary. Americans appreciate having the freedom to make these decisions for themselves. If the CEO of Hobby Lobby doesn't think using birth control or abortion is moral, then he (I have to assume it is a he) doesn't have to use birth control, abortion, viagra, blood transfusions, whatever. But he has NO right to limit the access to these things by his employees. THAT is the American way. Every conservative in this country should be able to recognize that the rights of individuals supersedes that of employers.

So can we agree that obastard and his friends here at this site (ike, alpo, ad nauseum) want religious expression confined to the actual physical walls of a place of worship ?

That is what I am coming away with.

Correct me if I am misunderstanding you folks.

I even broke my comments down into short snippets to facilitate alprova's pontification.

I agree 100% with HL, but ONLY if they practice following 1.Do not service in any manner ANYONE, who does not have same "values" 2.ONLY purchase goods from suppliers that certify they are open for inspection to prove they ONLY practice same "values{" as HL

Now if HL, supporters and other companies that suddenly got right wing extreme "values" will practice above, to include closed and do not shop on Sundays, I'm with you. For now will just regard you as super hypocrites ALL. Now please list other firms and their suppliers that support such outrages as say one thing, but in truth practice another, ot include all the Asian stuff on the shelves, made by "practicing Christians"?

Jon Ross: PAY ATTENTION: Religious expression that imposes on others is wrong. Isn't that what conservatives believe-in the rights of the individuals? AGAIN: No one is making the CEO of hobby lobby use birth control. Or have an abortion.

Correct me if I am misunderstanding you folks.

Yes. You are misunderstanding. Or you truly believe that is it perfectly okay to deny access to birth control based on religious belief. But don't forget-some religions ban blood transfusion. Would you allow a CEO to deny his employees coverage for blood transfusion? If so, then you really don't get the idea of religious freedom. If not, then you simply don't like the idea of people having access to birth control and abortion. I cannot believe that all other uses of taxpayers money meets with your full approval.

BTW-We all get that you hate Obama. But try to use REAL reasons to back up your hate. That way you don't look so foolish.

and nowfedup I am for letting people who oppose our military to opt out of taxes for that purpose, but they should be required to live in a "protection" free zone where the U.S. military offers no protection. Perhaps that zone could be set-up in Hawaii, or perhaps New York City, or Boston, or San Francisco.

Fine-same with those that want to live in a theocracy. They can have Mississippi.

Just one other thought, since some seem to favor this HL loons and their supporters. One step on ole slippery slope of extremes and corp greed, not to far from "NO Health Care and benefits as the Lord shall provide if you pray for it".

Doubt company would go that way, you under estimate the worship of money by way to many,.

ike who is denying access to birth control to anyone ? Certainly not HL. Long before there was healthcare insurance and long before our system was seized by obastard people used birth control. Your statements are irrational.

This entire discussion is about Obama requiring the owners of HL, people who took many risks, and worked incredibly hard, to build something to abandon their beliefs.

And yet you cannot support this. No one is making Hobby Lobby abandon their beliefs. It is just making sure that they do not impose them on their employees through their health coverage. Your statements display cognitive dissonance.

who is denying access to birth control to anyone

That is not the point. No CEO should dictate what health insurance covers for employees based on religious beliefs. That health care coverage includes covering birth control and abortion is not something they should be able to deny to others based on their own religious beliefs. Nor access to Viagra or blood transfusion, chemotherapy or anything else for that matter.

What happened to obastard's promise of Hope and Change ? He was going to bring us all together. But from day one he and his Progressive thugs have launched wars against all facets of society that in any way disagree with his hard core Socialist religious beliefs.

We are headed to a crap pot of trouble real soon, and it is solely the creation of the Socialist beast in the White House.

JonRoss, you have demonstrated that you are both paranoid and dishonest.

Ikeithlu said: "I believe the use of drones is immoral, and yet my tax money goes to pay for them. Is that Obama imposing beliefs on me? Of course not."

I’ve been giving this issue some serious thought for some time now. It seems to me that if the Supreme Court declares that religious views have to be a consideration when it comes “tax” and "policy" matters, then it is only be fair that every citizen will have the same rights as an owner of a corporation, which means that every citizen will be able to pick and choose exactly how their tax money can be spent so they may be in accordance with the tenets of their faith.

"Fine-same with those that want to live in a theocracy. They can have Mississippi." says keithlu. How utterly tolerant, Keithlu.
"I've seen nothing to indicate the banning of birth-control. The left seemingly wants to make govt.mandated birth control the new litmus test. Another wedge issue. As usual, the left is way on the wrong side of this issue.

I think they just don't want to pay for health insurance and are looking for some free publicity. If they are so morally outraged then drop all their employees to 31 hrs a week and avoid the fine while saving face at church. Its a win win , they can be good christians, make more money and blame President Obama for the plight of thier now struggling employees. .... It always baffles me how good cristians are against abortion yet resist sex ed, birth control, acces to condoms depo shots plan b pill ect.... doesn't restricting access to these things increase the number of abortions?

DJH: It's isn't just Christians protesting. It's tons of people not wanting to see their rights violated. This case is classic slippery slope squared. I guess the left sees this as a winning strategy..blaming it on Christianity, nut cases, etc.

It's tons of people not wanting to see their rights violated.

I fail to see that anyone's rights are being violated here. It is not HL's "right" to deny a part of health coverage to their employees based on the owner's religious beliefs.

I thought conservatives were all about freedom to make these decisions yourself. Guess I was wrong.

Oh yeah. Corporations are people now.

But my point remains.... How does preventing people from having access to birth control reduce the number of abortions. And I am assuming that some of the hobby lobby employees are married so how is it contributing to a lifestyle that these owners do not aprove of? But as for it not being just cristians, then who else has been prostesting healthcare choices for women? And no I'm not one fro namecalling it doesn't seem to advance the conversation.

mountainlaurel said....

How terrible corporations were and how bad they were for the country which if true cannot happen without the complicity of our elected elite.

ml added... But maybe you agree with these CEOs that the rights, souls, and preferences of their workers are expendable and it’s perfectly natural that a CEO's religious views be given priority.

This is not the typical CEO this is the owner that complies with all government labor laws and other regulations with all the risk of owning an investment that can go broke at any point in time. There are no share holders and a CEO with a golden parachute if he destroys the company as some do. He knows there would be no bail out by the government if business went bad.

The tax for anyone not purchasing something was a first and opened doors to politicians. This is another case requiring a purchase by a business, telling a business how they must spend their capital. A slippery slope that I promise you that you will regret if you are young enough. No doubt the insurers and pharmaceuticals are loving it. You do know who the biggest financial supporters of the AHCA were with huge contributions and who contributed a lot to the red ink write ins in the margins. Check out who got billions in tax breaks and other perks in the last minute 12/31/12 tax legislation.

mountainlaurel said....

How terrible corporations were and how bad they were for the country which if true cannot happen without the complicity of our elected elite.

ml added... But maybe you agree with these CEOs that the rights, souls, and preferences of their workers are expendable and it’s perfectly natural that a CEO's religious views be given priority.

This is not the typical CEO this is the owner that complies with all government labor laws and other regulations with all the risk of owning an investment that can go broke at any point in time. There are no share holders and a CEO with a golden parachute if he destroys the company as some do. He knows there would be no bail out by the government if business went bad.

The tax for anyone not purchasing something was a first and opened doors to politicians. This is another case requiring a purchase by a business, telling a business how they must spend their capital. A slippery slope that I promise you that you will regret if you are young enough. No doubt the insurers and pharmaceuticals are loving it. You do know who the biggest financial supporters with of the AHCA were with huge contributions and who contributed a lot to the red ink write ins in the margins. Check out who got billions in tax breaks and other perks in the last minute 12/31/12 tax legislation.

Major props to Hobby Lobby.

Rebus supports Fascism! Anyone on the side of Hobby Lobby is a Fascist!

lkeithlu pelosied... Every conservative in this country should be able to recognize that the rights of individuals supersedes that of employers.

Not if your idea of individual “rights” includes loafing on the job, not showing up, or forcing the employer to pay for your morning after pill. Buy them yourself. If you don’t like the health care coverage provided by a particular employer – for any reason whatsoever, then work or shop someplace else. The twin ideas of freedom and individual responsibility are abhorrent to the moral sensibilities of liberals. They need to take their own advice and stop shoving their morality down the throats of others.

In case you missed it, lkeithu just equated the morning after pill as a necessity on par with chemotherapy. You guys are desperate.

I no longer enable Hobby Lobby with my $$$.....

stanleyyelnats dot com

Wwwtw,

Hobby Lobby IS NOT paying for the morning-after-pill. Why don't you understand that? The employees will be paying for it themselves.

You mean the way the Hobby Lobby folks are shoving their morality and "beliefs" down the throats of their employees?

Your Christian Dominionist arguments are at the height of desperation. You and your ilk are losing your foothold in this country and it's killing you. If you want to use your religion to control the lives of others, go to Saudi Arabia or Israel. Religious fascism rules the day in there.

Rebus..... If you want to talk about rights being violated why such a strech to go after healthcare coverage why not start with the 4th amendment, habeus corpus or the 5th amendment? Seems like the right was in control for thoses real erosions so why all the red herring arguments now that the left is calling the shots? Seems like a distraction to me. But again to question the right is to be on the left. The infallable conservative can't seem to understand that getting into anyones bedroom is a loosing election stratagy. Also still doesn't understand that there is more than one way to live.

Rebus said... "DJH: It's isn't just Christians protesting. It's tons of people not wanting to see their rights violated. This case is classic slippery slope squared. I guess the left sees this as a winning strategy..blaming it on Christianity, nut cases, I never met a chick that didn't think she gave the greatest head in the world... etc.

Not if your idea of individual “rights” includes loafing on the job, not showing up,

These are not "rights", but how one manages their health care with their doctor is a privacy issue and hence a rights issue. Can you answer the question that JonRoss couldn't? Can you justify denying coverage for blood transfusions based on religious belief of the employer? It is NO different. Managing reproduction is a health issue, and it is private. It is not the place of the employer to intervene.

nothing like taking passages out of context. but that's the leftist way. So is being obsessive.

lkeithlu said...Can you justify denying coverage for blood transfusions based on religious belief of the employer? It is NO different. Managing reproduction is a health issue, and it is private. It is not the place of the employer to intervene.

A blood transfusion is a life-saving medical procedure that occurs due to unforeseen circumstances in a patient’s life. It is carried out by medical personnel only. Plan B is a choice that a woman makes after she chose to have sex but doesn’t want the responsibility of a baby. Plan B pills can be purchased at a pharmacy or over the internet.

Now will you answer my question: How is the importance of chemotherapy comparable to that of a Plan B pill?

A right? Is health insurance a "right?" I thought health insurance is something you purchase.

Potcat replied to jd/rebus...... no woman believes any such thing.

I feel kinda bad that i wrote the bj post. Limric enjoyed it though.....

Plan B is a choice, so is chemotherapy.

Hobby Lobby has placed itself in that precarious position that all sanctimonious hustlers find themselves in eventually. While they claim that they will not bargain on their pro-life stance as morals always trump money, now they have to answer for their tacit approval of China's system of coerced and late-term abortions. Hobby Lobby has pumped billions of dollars into the Chinese economy purchasing trinkets and doo-dads made in sweatshops on the cheap. When the sanctity of the fetus is head-to-head with the bottom line...The fetus doesn't stand a chance.

Well, gotta run. I'm gonna go get a chicken sandwich and a big ol' jug of glitter so folks will know that I have the good morals.

patriot.... Jack was refering to the right of freedom of religion , meaning the freedom to operate a business without governmnet intervention on religous grounds niether of us were argueing that healthcare is a right. I do not agree that the gov should be allowed the power to declare what I or anyone spend thier money on as a cost of being merely alive but that arguement was lost and the supreme court upheld it as long as it was a fine or a tax or a tax but not a fine? I get confussed and worry where this sliipery slope will lead but My main concern is why keep argueing over such a trivial matter as controception, A topic that puts the right into someones private life. It is a proven looser on election day, so don't go there. Conservatives need to focus on the money and leave the distractions to someone else.

Hey, GDawg! Git me a big ol jug of glitter, too, please! LMAO Now that's just funny.

patriot said "A right? Is health insurance a "right?" I thought health insurance is something you purchase."

Every election cycle now the Progressive thugs and obastards come up with another new absolute right and then talk Americans into voting them into control of the government to implement the new "right". That is why our economic system has collapsed.

Will do dude. I'd rather have glitter and not need it than need it and not have it. I think they are running a special deal on those stylish zebra print crosses as well, I'll pick one up for you.

How do you stand on wicker and burlap?

Glad to hear dude and grateful have given over control of their anal openings to barry O !

JonRoss,

You're one ignorant bastard.

Jonny Boy, it's more than a little weird that you are thinking about mine and dude's "anal openings." Where did that come from? I guess the internet reception is good in the closet that you reside in.

"A right? Is health insurance a 'right?' I thought health insurance is something you purchase." - patriot1

Only in America. Every other industrialized nation on the planet is at least civilized enough to recognize that health care for all is indeed a right. America, where greed, arrogance, and stupidity reign supreme, still clings to the whacked-out notion that health care is something that only the rich or the lucky should have access to.

Contrary to what you smug, self-absorbed righties like to think, it is not laziness or a desire to game the system that is the reason most people don't have health insurance. Most of them don't have it because they simply cannot afford to pay premiums that oftentimes cost more than they pay for their rent or their mortgage. Or they have pre-existing conditions that insurance companies refuse to cover - at least until ObamaCare came along and is trying to prevent that. There are presently over 50 million Americans without health insurance and they don't deserve to suffer more or die sooner than the people who are rich enough to buy it outright or fortunate enough to work at one of the few places that still offers a good comprehensive health plan.

Health care should be taken completely out of the free market. It should not be treated like a widget, a commodity that we have to "buy." And it should not be tied to our jobs in any way. Imagine how much more productive companies could be if they didn't have the added expense or the burden of having to provide health care for their employees. You people whining about how the government has no business making decisions for business owners, get the health care out of the equation entirely and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

A blood transfusion is a life-saving medical procedure that occurs due to unforeseen circumstances in a patient’s life.

Some birth control treats problems that are unrelated to conception. Is it your job or the job of employers to judge just why birth control or plan B is being used? You have a lot of moxey to allow people outside the doctor/patient relationship to pass judgment on medical procedures.

Let me remind you that as soon as you let employers pass judgment on what should be private interchange between doctor and patient you lose the freedom of privacy. Just because you think that birth control or plan B is used for purposes you don't approve of does not give you (or the CEO of a company) to interfere with the delivery of health care to a patient.

AGAIN: a true conservative would respect the freedoms of the individual and would not try to impose their own particular religious moral judgment.

alprova said... fairmon wrote: "The government is telling some employers through the AHCA and the contraception requirement what they must do with some of their profits."

That is NOT true. The AHCA sets forth coverage and expenditures that INSURANCE COMPANIES must offer and pay for on behalf of policy holders.

Alprova....When the government tells an employer they must provide a certain level of health care then tells the insurance companies what they must cover that is pretty darn close to telling an employer what and how much of their capital must be spent on something. Insurance companies give nothing away, they take the premium, pay their expenses and pay claims, anything left is profit unless they are set up as one of the phoney no profits that spend it all but charge no less and pay no better than the for profits.

I hope every employer in the country gets out of the health care business with a defined benefit process with a minimum amount to meet the AHCA requirement deposited to a RHCA.

So the same ol' name callers still here, huh?

Jack "The Whiny Hypocrite" Dennis (a.k.a Re[short]bus) is still here!

I wonder if he'll ever admit it?

Rickaroo....in your tome I notice how you bounce back and forth between health insurance and health care as if they are the same thing.....they are not.

patriot1,

You can't have one without the other in this country. But you wouldn't know that. You and your ilk aren't big on "reality" or "facts".

Jack_Reacharound

Now showing in Rossville Boulevard Cinemas.

Starring Dennis_Rebus

“Freemon claims ML said: “How terrible corporations were and how bad they were for the country which if true cannot happen without the complicity of our elected elite.”*

No, what I said was: “Attitudinally, I believe Hobby Lobby’s owners and CEO David Green have a lot in common with Venezuela’s President Hugo Chavez – starting with an overblown ego.” . . . AND then I asked: “If you’ve ever been concerned or reflected on the possibility that every time a government places the rights of a CEO or corporation above the rights of a worker or the citizenry, it might be moving more toward a corporatocracy.” But you declined to answer my question.

Fairmon said: “This is another case requiring a purchase by a business, telling a business how they must spend their capital.”

I can’t say that I am sympathetic to the alleged cause of Hobby Lobby’s CEO David Green. I believe Green is out of line professionally and he has become one more example of an arrogant CEO who believes his personal religious views and/or whims trumps the rights, personal preferences, and healthcare choices of a company’s employees.

Fairmon added: “A slippery slope that I promise you that you will regret if you are young enough.”

I believe America has been on a dangerous slippery slope for some time, but it appears to be a slope that you’ve opted to ignore. Again, big corporate money already dominates U.S. elections, has stronger political representation than most members of its citizenry, is already creating “ready-made” laws for many of our lawmakers, has a history of utilizing its profits to orchestrate campaigns to suppress the voting rights of certain sectors of our citizenry, plays a prominent role in creating our national defense policies, and is constantly demanding special treatment and special exclusions when it comes to paying their fair share of taxes.

fairmon wrote: "I hope every employer in the country gets out of the health care business with a defined benefit process with a minimum amount to meet the AHCA requirement deposited to a RHCA."

I hope every employer bails too. THEN there will be a move to nationalize health care because the majority of this nation will not be able to afford private insurance policies.

The insurance companies are keenly aware of this, which is why they have a stake in seeing to it that the AHCA is a shining success. Their very future depends on it too.

You can bet that as we are debating this issue, the insurers all across America are making personal visits to employers to educate them to the benefits of embracing the AHCA and convincing them that the WORST thing they can do is to drop their health care coverage.

alpo....(the "registered republican") says he hopes all employers bail on health insurance so it can be nationalized.

This leviathan is going to be stopped at some point, even if it eventually collapses from its own weight.

JonRoss wrote: "And once again alprova shows total ignorance. No wonder he has had so many personal disasters. If alprova wants to control Hobby Lobby, let him buy them out. Idiot."

I assure you that the problems I have encountered and triumphed over throughout the course of my life, are not due to ignorance. Almost all of them were instances of chance.

Only someone who wallows in ignorance would dare offer such a statement.

"Hobby Lobby is not "taking" money from anyone. They provide a product and service that people want. This thought process by alprova is why America will evaporate withing the next decade."

I have no idea what "withing" is, but Hobby Lobby is indeed "taking" or more to the point, accepting money from people every day of the week, and fills their bank accounts with that money, received from people who do not share their values.

I would not be surprised if all this publicity backfires on them, horribly. Prior to them attempting to sue to be allowed to exempt themselves from having to provide insurance benefits that include birth control to their employees, I was not aware of their "values."

Now that I am, I have no intention of patronizing their stores in the future. I am not alone either.

Hobby Lobby is a publicly traded company. Their attempt to deny an AHCA required health care benefit to their employees may result in a stock holder eruption, if their stock continues to drop, as it has during the recent past.

"So can we agree that obastard and his friends here at this site (ike, alpo, ad nauseum) want religious expression confined to the actual physical walls of a place of worship ?"

That's where religious expression and influence belongs.

"I even broke my comments down into short snippets to facilitate alprova's pontification."

No need for you to do that. I am quite capable of addressing the points I deem worthy of a response.

alpo....(the "registered republican") In your posts you talk about companies such as Hobby Lobby "filling their bank accounts", "raking in money", "banking profits", etc. This is what really bothers you isn't it? The fact that they are making a profit. Does this make you feel inadequate, or envious maybe? Profits are not a bad thing alpo...

That nasty HOBBY LOBBY, filling their bank accounts, raking in money, banking profits.....How crass.

Rebus_Jackus_Dennus,

And denying female employees full insurance benefits!

Your senility must have made you forget this fact.

I walked through Hobby Lobby the other day. It looked like around 10,000 square feet of junk made in China. Morals dictate that Mr. Green doesn't want to provide legal prescriptions. However, you would think that those very same morals would prevent him from doing business with a country that sponsors forced, yes forced, abortions. My guess is that his morals run about as deep as the thickness of a dollar bill. I won't be back in there. I don't deal with hypocrites.

Uhh alpo..(registered republican) When was Hobby Lobby's IPO?...I must have missed that. I sure would like to have purchased some stock.

Alpo...(registered republican) You talked about a stock holder "eruption" at Hobby Lobby and how their stock has dropped in value...what is that ticker symbol? I think you are the one having an eruption. Hobby Lobby is a privately held company and is not publicly traded therefore I would not expect any "eruptions" You should do your research before making a fool of yourself.

Hobby Lobby sales are already rising as a result of obastard's attack on their Christian beliefs. People refuse to be bullied by Progressive thugs like obastard and Sebelius.

alpo you have screwed the pooch. In a brief couple of hours you have endorsed suppression of all religious freedoms outside of physical church buildings and you have shown your ignorance of the status of Hobby Lobby ownership amd financial operations.

patriot1,

"You should do your research before making a fool of yourself."

Take your own advice.

alprova said...

Hobby Lobby is a publicly traded company. Their attempt to deny an AHCA required health care benefit to their employees may result in a stock holder eruption, if their stock continues to drop, as it has during the recent past.

Do you have the ticker symbol for their stock and a stock price? I didn't think they were a publicly traded company, I haven't seen their stock listed on any of the exchanges. The news reports that 60,000 people have signed up for a shopping day at Hobby Lobby. People need to be much more concerned with the move to tax or fine a person or a business for items not purchased and dictating to a business how they will allocate their capital for anything. That is a slippery slope....buy it or pay a tax or buy it or pay a fine. Is that the approach to be used for Hybrid cars? Must the purchase be a GM product or pay a tax?

The fact is pregnancy prevention products and Viagra like products should be OTC instead of affecting the health care policy cost of anyone. Birth control is not an illness and only in rare cases are some of the products prescribed for treatment or prevention.

JonRoss,

"Hobby Lobby sales are already rising as a result of obastard's attack on their Christian beliefs."

Nothing in this sentence is based on facts.

"People refuse to be bullied by Progressive thugs like obastard and Sebelius."

You mean like David Green.

"you have endorsed suppression of all religious freedoms outside of physical church buildings"

False. Alprova said:

"That's where religious expression and influence belongs."

"and you have shown your ignorance of the status of Hobby Lobby ownership amd financial operations."

Why weren't you the one to correct Alprova then? Or did you not know either? JonRoss calling someone ignorant is like John Boehner calling someone "emotional". You're the king of ignorance, JonRoss. You've been "screwing pooches" for quite a while now.

gypsyhoe you are as ignorant as alpo. China no longer has "forced abortions". But obastard is now requiring people who object to abortions pay for them.

Obama lied to us when he signed, after the passage of obamacare, the executive order banning taxpayer financed abortions, to lure uneasy Democrats into supporting obamacare. Now the cost of abortions is being mandated by "rules" forced on employers Sebelius. That is deception in the worst way.

easy you make the most audacious statements, similar to the crap that spews from your president. alpo's statement is clear. He opposes free expression of religion outside the physical structure of churches. That is the way the Soviet Union operated for nearly 70 years. I suppose that is where we are headed based on obastard and Sebelius dictates.

JonRoss,

"gypsyhoe you are as ignorant as alpo."

Real classy, King Ignorant.

"China no longer has "forced abortions"."

False.

"But obastard is now requiring people who object to abortions pay for them."

Wrong again.

"Obama lied to us when he signed, after the passage of obamacare, the executive order banning taxpayer financed abortions,"

Wrong for the third time.

"Now the cost of abortions is being mandated by "rules" forced on employers Sebelius."

Falsehood number 5.

"That is deception in the worst way."

Correct. Everything you say is deceptive, false, or a big, fat lie!.

"if I'm elected, no one earning less than $250k a year will see their taxes increase. Not one dime."

Quiz: who said that?

easy everything I said is true.

JonRass-hole,

"easy you make the most audacious statements,"

If by "audacious", you mean "factual", "true", or "accurate" then I agree. But if you're using the actual definition of the word then I'll have to disagree. YOU make the most audacious, ignorant statements.

"similar to the crap that spews from your president."

You know all about spewing crap.

"alpo's statement is clear."

And it clearly DOES NOT say what you said it did.

"He opposes free expression of religion outside the physical structure of churches."

FALSE. Alprova said:

"That's where religious expression and influence belongs."

Nothing in that statement is congruent with what you're saying.

"That is the way the Soviet Union operated for nearly 70 years."

No, it didn't. Stalin was god and he was worshipped freely by everyone.

"I suppose that is where we are headed based on obastard and Sebelius dictates."

Only a moron would suppose such a thing. You're an idiot. There is no other way to put it. Nothing you say is true. Literally, NOTHING. No one should ever take anything you say seriously. You are mentally compromised and patently ignorant.

rebus you are just a hater. How dare you imply that our lord and saviour barack of chicagoreth would make false statements. You are a hatefilled hateful hater.

Love- easy123

JonRass-hole,

"easy everything I said is true."

No, it isn't. In fact, nothing you said was true.

"rebus you are just a hater."

More of a troll but "hater" works too.

"How dare you imply that our lord and saviour barack of chicagoreth would make false statements."

He didn't make a false statement. Income taxes didn't go up for anyone making under $250,000. In fact, they didn't go up for anyone under $400,000. Funny how that worked out.

Keep going, sweetheart. I'll be here to burst your bubble.

easy you are a very entertaining, yet disturbed, individual.

easy don't you have a NAMBLA convention or something to attend this weekend ? Maybe it is time for you leave.

JonRass-hole,

"easy you are a very entertaining, yet disturbed, individual."

You talk out of your ass more than any individual I've ever come across. You just say things that you think are witty but, in reality, it never makes sense.

"easy don't you have a NAMBLA convention or something to attend this weekend ?"

Nope. I'm not associated with NAMBLA in any way. Maybe you're just remembering your own schedule for the weekend.

"Maybe it is time for you leave."

LMFAO! I'll never leave your dumbass, JonRoss. Who will show you how dumb you are?

Adolescence thrives here tonite.

Rebus_Jackinghiemer_Schmitt,

"Adolescence thrives here tonite."

No, it doesn't. I doubt anyone that has posted here is an adolescent.

Your one-liners are still as lame as they were when Jack_Dennis was posting them.

Technically,those making less then $400,000 will not see an increase in their income taxes, but they will pay higher taxes.

More than 80 percent of households with incomes between $50,000 and $200,000 would pay higher taxes. Among the households facing higher taxes, the average increase would be $1,635, the policy center said. A 2 percent payroll tax cut, enacted during the economic slowdown, is being allowed to expire as of yesterday

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-01/senate-passed-deal-means-higher-tax-on-77-of-households.html

Here are some more tax increases for those making less then $400,000

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323874204578219793593903934.html?mod=djemEditorialPage_h

patriot1 wrote: "alpo....In your posts you talk about companies such as Hobby Lobby "filling their bank accounts", "raking in money", "banking profits", etc. This is what really bothers you isn't it? The fact that they are making a profit. Does this make you feel inadequate, or envious maybe? Profits are not a bad thing alpo..."

Not at all. The point I am made is quite obvious. Hobby Lobby can pretend to be conscience of it's religious values all day long, but the source of their income comes largely from selling their products to "heathens" who do not embrace their values.

I just think one should always have the courage of their convictions and be consistent.

If they have no problem padding their bank accounts with money handed to them by people who likely use birth control and/or who have had an abortion, then they shouldn't have any problem with their employees making personal decisions along those same lines.

Is that too hard for you to understand?

patriot1 wrote: "Alpo...Hobby Lobby is a privately held company and is not publicly traded therefore I would not expect any "eruptions" You should do your research before making a fool of yourself."

Upon a second look at the page I was looking at that confused Hobby Lobby with another company, you are correct. I was incorrect in stating that Hobby Lobby was a publicly traded company.

I humbly apologize and retract my previous statement.

JonRoss wrote: "gypsyhoe you are as ignorant as alpo. China no longer has "forced abortions"."

The hell they don't. Not only do they still force abortions, they force abortions in the third trimester.

"But obastard is now requiring people who object to abortions pay for them."

That Sir, is a lie.

"Obama lied to us when he signed, after the passage of obamacare, the executive order banning taxpayer financed abortions, to lure uneasy Democrats into supporting obamacare."

There are no taxpayer funded abortions in this nation. I have challenged many times people to cough up the proof that there are.

Additionally, I have also challenged anyone to cough up the proof that taxpayer abortions are contained in so much as one sentence of the Affordable Health Care Act.

Cough it up.

"Now the cost of abortions is being mandated by "rules" forced on employers Sebelius. That is deception in the worst way."

You have not the first clue what you are typing about. No employer in this nation is being forced to pay for any abortions.

Cough up the proof to that supercilious charge as well.

rick1 wrote: "More than 80 percent of households with incomes between $50,000 and $200,000 would pay higher taxes. Among the households facing higher taxes, the average increase would be $1,635, the policy center said. A 2 percent payroll tax cut, enacted during the economic slowdown, is being allowed to expire as of yesterday"

That is absolutely correct, but it was the President who called for and received that temporary 2% payroll tax holiday back when the nation's unemployment was much higher than it is now.

That payroll tax holiday was offered as a temporary means to increase the paychecks of working Americans while times were much tougher than they are now.

Anyone expecting it to become permanent is being rather naive.

rick1 wrote: "Here are some more tax increases for those making less then $400,000"

They'll be alright. Their lives will go on, their bills will be paid each and every month, and they will still be allowed to keep the vast majority of what they earn each year.