published Saturday, February 9th, 2013

Bennett Archive: Help

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Salsa said...

I'm sure some democrat will be along shortly to abort him and take his wallet

February 9, 2013 at 12:03 a.m.
WHS1970 said...

That was a stupid comment, but what else should one expect?

February 9, 2013 at 1:08 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

We all are. If we're glad our parents gave us a chance, should we let other babies be murdered for the convenience of their parents?

As for the compassion of pro-lifers, give 'em a call! The very name "Choices Women's Resource Center," 423-855-8300, points to compassion not limited to inside the womb. The Chattanooga abortuary used to charge $20 for a pregnancy test Choices (formerly AAA Women's Services) would give for no charge. Which would you go to for that? I've known a respectable middle-class churchgoing family to let an unmarried pregnant woman live with them for several months, until her baby was born. Does Planned Parenthood (Parenthood?!?) arrange such things? Has such a person, or other stranger needing a roof, ever had such a stay with the Bennett family?

Conservatives tend to give of our own, as Jesus gave His own life. Liberals tend to give at the expense of other people, e.g. solve pregnancy problems by murdering the baby, or Messiah problems by murdering the Messiah.

(Did Clay model his beggar's face on his own? :)

February 9, 2013 at 1:27 a.m.
nucanuck said...

The right-to-lifers concern for the feti of others seems to end at birth as Clay has so aptly portrayed.

February 9, 2013 at 1:28 a.m.
BluesHarp said...

“I cannot understand anti-abortion arguments that centre on the sanctity of life. As a species we've fairly comprehensively demonstrated that we don't believe in the sanctity of life. The shrugging acceptance of war, famine, epidemic, pain and life-long poverty shows us that, whatever we tell ourselves, we've made only the most feeble of efforts to really treat human life as sacred.” ― Caitlin Moran

“The Vatican won't prosecute pedophile priests but I decide I'm not ready for motherhood and it's condemnation for me? These are the same people that won't support national condom distribution that PREVENTS teenage pregnancy.” ― Sonya Renee Taylor

“How come when it’s us, it’s an abortion, and when it’s a chicken, it’s an omelette?” ― George Carlin

February 9, 2013 at 3:22 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

This one made me laugh out loud. What a joke "pro-lifers" are. Sanctity of life? Yeah, right. They give fetuses and embryos more rights even than the mothers who carry them, but most of those aborted unborns that they shed crocodile tears for would have been born into the status of "takers," in which case those holier-than-thou pro-lifers would just as soon spit on them as look at them the moment they popped out of the womb. Hypocrites, the whole sorry self-righteous lot.

February 9, 2013 at 4:11 a.m.
alprova said...

AndrewLohr wrote: "I've known a respectable middle-class churchgoing family to let an unmarried pregnant woman live with them for several months, until her baby was born...."

Until the baby was born...

Let's let those words simmer for a moment.

Until the baby was born?

When the baby was born, did the woman's homeless status magically disappear? Did a home for the two of them fall from the sky? This is EXACTLY why there is no mistaking that any concern that pro-lifers may have for life, ends the second that a baby is delivered.

"Goochy goochy goo...now it's all up to you..."

"Conservatives tend to give of our own, as Jesus gave His own life."

Another way to more accurately to phrase that, would be to say that conservatives tend to discriminatingly choose whom they help or to attach caveats to any assistance that they provide to someone.

"Come to church with me and I'll let you have ten bucks to buy some food."

"Liberals tend to give at the expense of other people, e.g. solve pregnancy problems by murdering the baby, or Messiah problems by murdering the Messiah?"

Try laying off the wine before you post in the middle of the night. What could you possibly mean when you state "Messiah problems by murdering the Messiah?..."

Mr. Lohr, taxpayer funded abortions are a myth. You're free to provide any proof to the contrary, but I doubt that you or anyone else can dig it up.

Liberals are absolutely okay with public assistance for the poor, because if most conservatives were left to their own desires, they would deny poor adults the basic needs of life, snatch their kids from them, place them into shoddy orphanages across the land, like it used to be done, reviving a system where millions of children would grow up lacking the love of at least one parent.

"(Did Clay model his beggar's face on his own? :)"

I'd be careful about making remarks like that. The dude above could be yourself;

February 9, 2013 at 5:25 a.m.
Reardon said...

Funny reboot Clay.

The elusive obvious that you, nor any of your liberal forum cohorts understand, is that the homeless panhandler presumably has the ability to help himself (however, different scenario if psychological issues are at play).

The fetus does NOT.

A group of prudent, hard-working, charitable, tax-paying people fatigue at a peer who has let Opportunity pass them by.

ESPECIALLY when social systems are set up to pay this person compensation in the form of food stamps, housing subsidies, food subsidies, etc.

YOU, a totally competent adult sentient being, are YOUR OWN responsibility. Not another's.

February 9, 2013 at 5:49 a.m.
patriot1 said...

Andrew....my thougts exactly, that must be a self portrait of the toonist.

February 9, 2013 at 6:04 a.m.
alprova said...

Clearly, some of you have never faced hitting rock bottom. In your minds, a man standing on a street, begging, is someone who refuses to help himself.

Perhaps the man is someone who was fired from his job a couple of years ago and is now being blackballed whenever references are checked.

Perhaps he lost his his entire family in a house fire and has no one else to assist him at all.

Sure, it could be that he's a druggie or a drunk. But what if it were Jesus? What if he decided to come back to earth to check up on all the fine Christians, to see if God's instructions are being followed?

One can presume a lot from looking at a drawing. Some only see the bum.

I see a couple of people who care not a whit to discover what went wrong with the life of a former fetus and are quite content to cut an eye in his direction, but just keep on walkin'.

February 9, 2013 at 6:36 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

Abortion, Again?

I was hoping to see Dr. Carson roasting Obama. Certainly that would be more interesting than Bennett's standard stock.

February 9, 2013 at 7:35 a.m.
Christophius said...

Alright, I gather that Clay's point here is that there are people who argue vociferously for the Right to Life, but simultaneously do not work for the well-being of those who are already born (thus being hypocritical).

While this is doubtless true of some people, I should be quick to add that there are MANY of us pro-lifers who do not stop caring for the well-being of others after birth. As a Catholic, I struggle at every election. Try to vote for a party that advances the agenda of the Faith completely. You can't. Many of my fellow democrats want to terminate the unborn, but predominant Republican economic policy will punish the poor.

I see Clay's point here, but my gut reaction was "not all of us pro-lifers are the same."

February 9, 2013 at 7:56 a.m.
dude_abides said...

alprova said... "Goochy goochy goo...now it's all up to you..."

My turn to spew coffee!

February 9, 2013 at 8:49 a.m.
conservative said...

Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise Proverbs 6:6

So we have an ant, a symbol of industriousness and productivity contrasted with a sluggard which needs no explanation. The sluggard is told to think about the ways of the productive and industrious ant and become wise in the value and profit of work.

Judge Judy would say to that sluggard - Get a job!

February 9, 2013 at 9 a.m.
alprova said...

Christophius, I am very mindful that there are exceptions to any generalization expressed by anyone. Thus, when I use generalizations, I am careful to use wording that is clear that I am not making claims that describe all people who belong to a group that I direct my comments about.

Just as all conservatives are not the same, and although I am quite liberal these days, that does not mean that it is fair to paint me with the same brush as well.

I don't endorse abortion as a means of birth control if there is any way around it. It should be a means of last resort in all cases. At the same time, if a woman is raped, a victim of incest, or her life is endangered, I see nothing wrong with abortion in those cases.

It should always be a personal choice for any woman, as are all other decisions that God allows us free will to make.

I am often accused of being a liberal, and thus, have been accused many times of being Godless, when the truth is quite the opposite.

I am pleased and honored to know many fine conservatives who do have a heart for all their fellow humans and who know the true meaning of Christianity.

If I came across as accusatory and inclusive of all people who deem themselves conservative, that was not my intention and I humbly apologize to you.

February 9, 2013 at 9:19 a.m.
MTJohn said...

alprova said...Clearly, some of you have never faced hitting rock bottom. In your minds, a man standing on a street, begging, is someone who refuses to help himself.

...or an above than average chance that the man is a combat veteran, who went into combat with the full support of those who align with the "pro-life party" and care little for their welfare when they return.

February 9, 2013 at 9:23 a.m.
rick1 said...

JonRoss that is what Margaret Sanger wanted. This is just one of many quotes from her.

"Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race." -- Margaret Sanger. Woman, Morality, and Birth Control . New York: New York Publishing Company, 1922. Page 12.

"[Our objective is] unlimited sexual gratification without the burden of unwanted children ... [Women must have the right] to live ... to love ... to be lazy ... to be an unmarried mother ... to create ... to destroy ... The marriage bed is the most degenerative influence in the social order ... The most merciful thing that a family does to one of its infant members is to kill it." -- Margaret Sanger (editor). The Woman Rebel , Volume I, Number 1. Reprinted in Woman and the New Race . New York: Brentanos Publishers, 1922.

"[Slavs, Latin, and Hebrew immigrants are] human weeds ... a deadweight of human waste ... [Blacks, soldiers, and Jews are a] menace to the race." "Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need ... We must prevent Multiplication of this bad stock." -- Margaret Sanger, April 1933 Birth Control Review .

The listed link provides more of these types of quotes.

http://blackquillandink.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/margaret-sanger-quotes.pdf

February 9, 2013 at 9:33 a.m.
joepulitzer said...

The cartoon actually depicts Clay six months from now.

February 9, 2013 at 9:46 a.m.
alprova said...

Being poor is not a crime, nor is it shameful in all cases. I have elderly relatives who grew up as dirt poor as one can get.

I have the same objections to assisting those who clearly...and I do mean clearly, who have no interest in working at all to help themselves. People who are able to work, should work.

But you cannot simply look at someone and determine whether or not they are unmotivated.

I am acquainted with a gentleman whose heart is so weak that some days he can't walk ten feet without being on the edge of collapsing to the pavement. Other days, he is not so bad. He has been trying to get approved for disability for almost two years.

I have to take 14 different medications, twice a day, to keep my medical conditions under control. All these medications keep me very limited to the amount of physical activity that my body will allow me to do. I have good days and bad days as well.

I'm not lazy at all. I do what I am able to do, and have always supported my family, but if it were not for my ability to work for myself where I can set my own pace, I would be in deep trouble, because my options would be slim to none in the working world.

Judging a book by it's cover is and always has been wrong.

Not every person you see who may be dirt poor or holding out their hand, metaphorically or not, is a bum who is not willing to work.

February 9, 2013 at 9:46 a.m.
rick1 said...

Al, said "Judging a book by it's cover is and always has been wrong."

And that is exactly what Clay did with todays cartoon, don't you agree?

February 9, 2013 at 9:58 a.m.
conservative said...

Over 20 years ago when I was somewhat gullible, I gave to the "will work for food" people. However, I became suspicious about a particular street corner where I saw the same people day in and out holding up these signs. I decided to park and watch from a distance. I saw one particular man receive a single note, I guessed either a 5 or a 10. After his smiling benefactor drove off he waited a couple of minutes and started walking down the sidewalk.

About half a block away he stopped in front of a grocery store and stared at it for a couple of minutes. Just when I was about to drive off he started walking again. He stopped in front of an Arby's and I figured he was going in there to eat. He just stared a couple of minutes like before and started walking again. He was getting out of site so I drove to a Kmart parking lot and continued to watch. He continued on down the sidewalk and sat on a bus stop bench. He took his cardboard sign and wedged it between a pole and the bench he was sitting on. I'm thinking he passed up two places to get food and now he is going to catch a bus. Again, just when I was about to give it up and drive off, he got up and started walking again, minus his sign.

Then it hit me. There is a bar close by! When he got to the bar he started cutting through the parking lot away from the front door so I thought I had misjudged him and was again about to give up the watch. No, there was a back door entrance to that bar, I knew this because I had been there a few times myself when I was a lost soul. I cranked my car up and shot across the street and parked where I could see the back door of that bar. You guessed it. That hungry man went into that bar!

Now, this guy could work. He was able bodied. He could walk. He could stand for hours in the heat. He even held up a sign that proclaimed he could work ("will work for food").

Also, he was intelligent. He knew few if any would watch him as long as I did to see where he would go after he got that money.

Intelligent and able bodied to work yet panhandling the gullible.

I later regretted that I did not get that sign he had left at that bus stop bench.

February 9, 2013 at 10:26 a.m.
mightyone said...

Whats the answer more panhandler fetuses or more sell out cartoonist fetuses?

February 9, 2013 at 10:29 a.m.
bret said...

That beggar does look a lot like Andrew Lohr. And since Andrew is unemployed and sucking off the gubmint tit, who knows? Clay may have modeled him after his favorite protagonist hypocrite.

February 9, 2013 at 10:31 a.m.
jesse said...

Well con man,if i had spent that much time and effort just to see whether he got a cheeseburger or a beer i don't think would tell anyone! You coulda spent that time prayin for him!

February 9, 2013 at 10:56 a.m.
Maximus said...

Clay, remember, you were once a fetus too! Even though you look like an unbathed, homeless guy in your TFP pic look what you have become.....a sad, cynical, doodler for the left. Remember too that Barry The Welfare Pimp Gay Scout Master Loving Baby Killer Obama was once a fetus too. I heard his Daddy, Barry "The Known Communist" Obama had one look at those ears when his son was born and caught the next plane to Africa. Now, that's fuuuuny I don't care what any body says. Finally, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and wow with his terrible voice and one hit wonder talent...Bruce Springstein all should have been aborted, because everyone knoew they would not amount to much. Clay you are sick.

February 9, 2013 at 11:15 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Conservative - I don't doubt that your anecdote is true. But, your apparent conclusion - that we ignore the homeless because they are there by choice - doesn't necessarily follow (that is, unless you are still gullible enough to believe the right-wing spin). And, if that event happened 20 years ago, there is a high probability that the individual was a Vietnam vet who was self-medicating a severe case of PTSD.

Your anecdote still says more about our society - the wealthiest in the world - that has so many homeless. It is inappropriate (un-Christian!!) to judge the people who live on the streets until we first judge ourselves and our own behaviors that helped to put them there in the first place.

February 9, 2013 at 11:35 a.m.
Maximus said...

nooga....It is sooooo much fun to keep the looney fringe left in their place.....the dust bin of failure. With Obama now swinging in the wind of negative public opinion there will be opportunities galore. Can't wait! Nooga don't you just feel the wonton lunacy of letting the IRS know about and run your personal healthcare? Obamacare is exploding onto the scene and no one, no body, not even the low IQ, moron voters that supported him, like it. Death panels anyone? Paul Kruger, NY Times

February 9, 2013 at 12:21 p.m.
patriot1 said...

alpo(registered republican) Since you're having to take so much medication at who knows what kind of expense, perhaps it's time to be thinking about what some of your kind on the left are saying.

February 9, 2013 at 12:37 p.m.
patriot1 said...

alpo(registered republican) With all that medication you're having to take, perhaps it's time your family had "that talk."

February 9, 2013 at 12:52 p.m.
fairmon said...

This issue has been worn out here. The logical thing to do would be to encourage abortion and provide easily accessible birth control. You pay for your own abortion, no problem if I help with as much as .0001 of tax money I want sterilization included.

We can't provide food, clothing, shelter, education and now health care for a segment of the population growing much faster than the providing segment, something has to change. Liberals want abortion as a choice but if not chosen they insist no one have a choice but to support and provide for the kid. Conservatives are gainst abortion but against supporting the kid once born. Both appear a little screwed up to me.

February 9, 2013 at 12:54 p.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn:

"But, your apparent conclusion - that we ignore the homeless because they are there by choice - doesn't necessarily follow."

The "homeless" have not been ignored. There are scores of Christian churches and organizations that are willing to help the "homeless." The problem is they refuse the opportunities to change and chose to live on the streets. I'm referring to the sane and not just the mentally ill whom the Liberals have refused to institutionalize.

I once was a member of a very large church which had a cafeteria. We worked with missions in the city and helped them with their food needs. One mission in particular would just feed and would not even require they listen to a Gospel message or any counseling. No work requirement just come and eat. To this day many live on the grounds in nearby parks waiting for the doors to open for the next meal.

I also knew of a man who was not willing to participate in the work rules of a Salvation Army center or obey the non drinking rules there. He stayed drunk behind a convenience store and sat and slept in an old recliner. This store was right across the street of the Salvation Army where he could have received help if he would only obey the rules. His daughter would come and plead with him to come home but he always refused. He would get to the point of near death, the police would take him away, he would receive medical help, food, recover somewhat and then released to just continue the cycle. Thank you Liberals, thank you ACLU. Even the Liberal Mayor Ed Koch at one time spoke out about the injustice of turning them loose on the streets.

I don't believe Liberals care about the "homeless" one bit. They just want others to subsidize their irrational Godless behavior just as they themselves want others to subsidize their irrationl Godless behavior and its inevitable consequences.

February 9, 2013 at 1:04 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

The con-man wasted all that time and all those words sharing his little anecdote about something that is common knowledge to all of us. Who doesn't already know that many street people and panhandlers are drug addicts, alcoholics, and/or mentally ill? Any time you give money to one, especially one you haven't seen before and don't know their habits, it's pretty much a crap shoot as to how that person will spend what you give to them. The only way to guarantee that your money is not contributing to their drug or alcohol problem is to actually accompany them to a restaurant and buy the food for them or just give them food instead of money.

Having said that, not all panhandlers are addicts or inveterate bums. Some of them truly are down on their luck. The attitude of today's conservatives is that anybody not pulling their own weight is simply a slacker and therefore a drain on society. They automatically dump everybody into the 47% of "takers." That way it's easy for them to dismiss things like welfare, food stamps, and Medicaid as completely wasteful programs that only contribute to the sloth of those who are too lazy to take care of themselves. But the typical alcoholic or drug addicted panhandler is the most visible and easily criticized of those who are down and out. It's easy to see them and automatically assume that all people not pulling their own weight are lazy bums or addicts who don't really want to work at all. But that is simply not the case. Of course there are those who abuse charity and assistance programs but there are many people for whom that is their only life-line and they use it as a bridge to get them to a point of being able to take care of themselves once again.

February 9, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

Conservative proclaims: “So we have an ant, a symbol of industriousness and productivity contrasted with a sluggard which needs no explanation.”

Exactly how did you draw this conclusion, Conservative? . . . I’m curious.

It seems to me there are many possibilities as to why the man in Clay Bennett's cartoon might be asking for our help. . . As some TFP posters have already suggested, he could be a former Vietnam soldier who needs our help. . . He could be someone who has been ill and lost everything he owned because he couldn’t pay his medical bills.

Indeed, he could even be someone who sold everything he once owned, has distributed all of his money to the poor and is standing on that corner to give you the opportunity to demonstrate an act of kindness and compassion. . . in other words, following the way of Jesus:

Mark 10:21-22 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me."

February 9, 2013 at 1:12 p.m.
MTJohn said...

conservative said...The "homeless" have not been ignored.

Conservative - many of the homeless need "wrap around" care. If we fail to understand that, even well-intentioned efforts to provide food and shelter are not sufficient to resolve their issues.

February 9, 2013 at 2:14 p.m.
dude_abides said...

conservative! It's a small world, after all! I knew the man you spoke about! I was in that bar that day. He actually came in the back door, as you said, and was begging for help! He said "the boy raper" was following him. There was much fear, in those days, of "the boy raper." He was said to be a hideous fellow that cruised the neighborhood looking for sex with kids. They spoke of how he would cite scripture when molesting them. Apparently, he would spend long periods of time just sitting and watching from a distance, once he found his target, and then follow them in his car hoping they would wander into a secluded area. Instructions were given to 'at risk' men and boys on how to avoid becoming a victim. They were told to loiter for a time in front of restaurants and at bus stops and other high visibility locations, and as a last resort, bars. You'll be glad to know that he turned his life around after that encounter, and became one of the most respected Catholic malpractice lawsuit defenders in Colorado history!

February 9, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.
Maximus said...

Clay's doodle really shows the stupidity of the left. Clay and others, don't you understand that we need a high birth rate creating millions of tax payers each year in order to support your "Workers Paradise" socialist utopia? Look what happened to one of your ideals of socialist perfection, the USSR. Their abortion rate has been among the highest in the world for decades and now Puten is trying to promote hetero sex in order to increase their birth rate which would produce more skilled Russian workers and tax payers. Finally, to live your life in such a cynical way, to discount the unique and great human potential that each new birth has is so very sad and I refuse to associate or advocate anyone with that mindset. The Pro Life Anti-Abortion Movement is producing more homeless people needing more government assistance....What? Clay and others like you make me vomit. Dim witted, negative, low life losers, period. Clay your daddy should have left you at one of those Army bases to fend for yourself, then maybe you would have not become such a victim.

February 9, 2013 at 3:40 p.m.
Maximus said...

Mountainlaurel...the American people are the most generous in the world. Yes, many Americans would have stepped up to help the man. Charity is not the role of Government. You missed the point though, Clay's cartoon is all about his cynical outlook on life in general. Very common with so-called, quasi intellectual, hippy feel good, 60's burnout, losers like Clay. To read about another such cynical loser that could not produce, compete, or keep a job in the private sector google Karl Marx.

February 9, 2013 at 3:50 p.m.
conservative said...

mountain:

"how did you draw this conclusion, Conservative?

Like you said there are many possibilities. If you will read what I have previously written you will see why I believe what I wrote.

Now, tell me what your conclusion is and how you drew it.

Now, to a more serious matter:

"Indeed, he could even be someone who sold everything he once owned, has distributed all of his money to the poor and is standing on that corner to give you the opportunity to demonstrate an act of kindness and compassion. . . in other words, following the way of Jesus:"

Mark 10:21-22 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me."

Well, I thank you for your advice on how to be a follower of Jesus but I have already followed Scripture on that. My Salvation was not gain nor can be gained by selling all my goods or doing any good work :

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done , but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:5

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:20

This man had come to Jesus and asked him how he could inherit eternal life v17. He falsely claimed he had observed all of the commandments v20. Jesus knew he had not. Jesus knew his wealth was standing in the man's way from following him so Jesus told the man to sell everything. He refused and went away grieved v22.

To do what you suggest would be a gross misinterpretation of Scripture and would make that person a burden on society. He would also be disobedient to God because of his slothfulness.

Please don't insult me by saying that you have taken your own advice.

February 9, 2013 at 4:03 p.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn:

I think I agree with you in spite of being unsure of what "wrap around" means.

February 9, 2013 at 4:07 p.m.
Maximus said...

Again, we need to go back to government commodities for the STRONG AND HEALTHY needy or those who are down and out. Take away the EBT cards and welfare checks and replace them with good ole hook cheese, peanut butter, and saltine crackers and watch that healthy looking dude with the hat in his hand (embarrassing) go back to work and I mean any kind of work. If you are healthy enough and of sound mind there is no excuse in not working. That is the reality lesson of the day for you feel good Democrats.

February 9, 2013 at 4:33 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"Clay and others, don't you understand that we need a high birth rate creating millions of tax payers each year in order to support your "Workers Paradise" socialist utopia? Look what happened to one of your ideals of socialist perfection, the USSR." - Maximus

Maximus, with every word you type you expose yourself for the simple minded twit you are. Not any liberal, not even the most liberal and socialistic among us, thinks there was anything about the USSR that was even remotely praiseworthy or admirable. What the USSR had was nothing more than fascism. It was a totalitarian government, nothing at all commendable about it. I don't know of any liberals who want anything to do with a purely socialist state, fascist or otherwise. We do not hate business owners or rich people and in fact many liberals are rich and/or business owners themselves. We do not want to dispense with the free enterprise system and replace it with some utopian socialist paradise. It is only you blind, deaf, and dumb righties who keep perpetuating the lie that we want such a thing. If you would only open your eyes and ears even a little bit you would see that nobody - NOBODY - is even suggesting socialism to the extent you claim we are.

Just because we think there is room, and in fact a need, for government and free enterprise to co-exist doesn't mean that we secretly want to engage in a slippery slope that will eventually lead to a USSR-type "utopia" - which we've never regarded as any kind of utopia anyway. But you're so busy tooting your own horn and perpetuating the stereotype of what you THINK liberals are that you can't see the forest for the trees. That's an awfully big head you have, wrapped around such a miniscule, piss-ant-sized mind.

February 9, 2013 at 4:46 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

" would you please list the rights of fetuses and embryos, over those of the mother, these people are proposing." - t_q

When you attempt to take away the element of choice in any and all circumstances (even in cases of rape, incest, or the woman's health), such as so many anti-abortion wing-nuts are proposing, you are saying, in essence, that the mother has no rights whatsoever and the fetus/embryo has ALL the rights. There is no LIST of rights. Just by stripping the pregnant woman of her own rights, you fetus-loving holy-rollers are thereby ceding all rights to the embryo/fetus. It's that simple. I'm not going to waste my time trying to come up with a "list" just because you fail to grasp the obvious.

February 9, 2013 at 4:59 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

btw....what's with you and this "LMFaO?" Over and over and over and over again you say "LMFaO," even when what you're writing about is not the least bit funny. Is it like a facial tic? You just can't help yourself? Obsessive/compulsive disorders are treatable, you know.

February 9, 2013 at 5:06 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

As long as that fetus/embryo is an appendage to the woman's body, it is first and foremost still the woman's body and what she decides to do with it is HER business. T-Q, you might think of yourself as being noble and righteous for caring so much about the rights of the unborn but as long as that unborn is an appendage to another woman's body and not your own, you need to simply BUTT OUT of what is her very own, personal business.

February 9, 2013 at 5:13 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Looks like Bennett's ignorant of the fact that Republicans are more charitable than Democrats, not that I'm so impressed with some of our Republicans right now.

February 9, 2013 at 5:46 p.m.
Easy123 said...

chatt_man,

"Looks like Bennett's ignorant of the fact that Republicans are more charitable than Democrats"

You're ignorant to that fact that it's "Conservatives" vs. "Liberals", not R vs. D. But charity has more to do with religion than political affiliation. You would know that if you actually did any research.

“Secular contributions tend to be to secular issues,” he said. “So, New England and the West Coast, they’re more likely to give to the Red Cross, the arts, museums, whereas in the Bible Belt or in Utah, they’re more likely to give to charities affiliated with religion.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/20/religion-politics-affect-americans-philanthropy/#ixzz2KRkPnKKT

February 9, 2013 at 6:08 p.m.
MTJohn said...

conservative said...MTJohn: I think I agree with you in spite of being unsure of what "wrap around" means.

Conservative - I am sincerely pleased to hear that. I used "wrap around" in recognition that homeless people typically are overwhelmed by multiple issues. Lack of shelter, adequate nutrition and unemployment are the obvious ones. Less obvious are lack of education and/or training, illness, mental health, substance abuse, etc. If people are going to get off the streets, they need help with all of their issues and, preferably help that is well coordinated.

One model that I think has merit is Family Promise. (http://www.familypromise.org/) This program focuses on families - parents and children. Volunteer groups (typically churches) help by providing meals and temporary shelter for families in the program. Professionals employed by the program screen families for eligibility; counsel the participants; provide case management services; help connect families to relevant government services; etc., and, importantly, hold the families accountable to their respective game plans for moving up and out of the program.

February 9, 2013 at 6:14 p.m.
chatt_man said...

Easy, if I wanted any remarks from you, I would let you up for air.

February 9, 2013 at 7:27 p.m.
alprova said...

patriot1 wrote: "Since you're having to take so much medication at who knows what kind of expense, perhaps it's time to be thinking about what some of your kind on the left are saying."

I assure you that although I am on numerous medications to keep me alive and stable, I am weathering the costs of my medication 100%, without my medical insurer paying so much as a dime toward the cost of them.

Paul Krugman clarified his remarks, following his choice of wording that has the likes of Rush Limbaugh up in arms.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/death-panels-and-sales-taxes/

February 9, 2013 at 7:42 p.m.
alprova said...

patriot1 wrote: "With all that medication you're having to take, perhaps it's time your family had "that talk."..."

I thank you kindly for your concern, but I have a living will on file with all my medical providers, and have had "the talk" years ago with my personal Physician.

BTW...have you made your desires known to your loved ones and your medical providers?

February 9, 2013 at 7:46 p.m.

Rickaroo said... As long as that fetus/embryo is an appendage to the woman's body, it is first and foremost still the woman's body and what she decides to do with it is HER business. T-Q, you might think of yourself as being noble and righteous for caring so much about the rights of the unborn but as long as that unborn is an appendage to another woman's body and not your own, you need to simply BUTT OUT of what is her very own, personal business.

So … Humans are simply appendages and mouths-to-feed. This is the inhumane hysteria that grips the fascist left. What a pitiful, heartless, cynical understanding of humanity.

Abortion unjustly stops a beating human heart. Keep defending the defenseless, pro-lifers. Keep butting in. Keep befriending and feeding and housing the homeless, Christians. Keep educating the illiterate. The fascists will always hate you for it. They have always hated you for it.

February 9, 2013 at 8:03 p.m.
Easy123 said...

chatt_man,

"Easy, if I wanted any remarks from you, I would let you up for air."

One of your sexual fantasies? LMFAO!

February 9, 2013 at 8:14 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "Mark 10:21-22 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me."..."

"Well, I thank you for your advice on how to be a follower of Jesus but I have already followed Scripture on that. My Salvation was not gain nor can be gained by selling all my goods or doing any good work."

How utterly convenient for you. What a good little scriptural cherry-picker you are. Did you intentionally leave out Mark 10:17?

Mark 10:17 - "17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"..."

Scripture tells us that Jesus told him that he must follow the ten commandments. The man replied that he had, since he was a boy. Then Jesus replies with Mark 10:21-22 above.

"To do what you suggest would be a gross misinterpretation of Scripture and would make that person a burden on society. He would also be disobedient to God because of his slothfulness."

You dispute the words of Jesus Christ. Jesus never suggested that one become slothful. A righteous man who gives to the poor, even if he sells all his worldly possessions, will not become a burden on society.

"Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we wear?' For it is the Gentiles who strive for all these things and indeed your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But strive first for the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." (Matthew 6:31-33)

"Please don't insult me by saying that you have taken your own advice."

Trust me...God knows that you are not taking HIS advice...

Proverbs 14:31 "He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God."

1 John 3:17 "If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?"

Deuteronomy 15:7 "If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother."

1 Timothy 6:18 "Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share."

February 9, 2013 at 8:16 p.m.
Easy123 said...

wwwtw,

"So … Humans are simply appendages and mouths-to-feed."

Rickaroo clearly used the words "fetus/embryo", not "human". There is a clear difference between a fetus/embryo and a human outside the womb. And never typed the phrase "mouths-to-feed". Clearly, you added that for effect.

"Abortion unjustly stops a beating human heart."

A fetal heart doesn't start beating until about 6-7 weeks after conception. Over 50% of abortions are performed at 7 weeks when there is no heart beat. Care to try again?

"Keep defending the defenseless, pro-lifers."

Only defenseless fetuses, no one else, right? Those pro-lifers are the same gun-toting, warmongering, welfare/food stamp bashers that frequent this site. They aren't "pro-life" by any means.

"Keep befriending and feeding and housing the homeless, Christians."

Christians aren't the only ones. But this isn't the first time you've given Christianity credit for things it had absolutely nothing to do with.

"Keep educating the illiterate."

"Keep educating the illiterate, you godless public school indoctrination hubs!". I fixed it for you.

"The fascists will always hate you for it. They have always hated you for it."

Your strawman argument is easily seen for what it really is: Bullsh!t.

February 9, 2013 at 8:21 p.m.
alprova said...

chatt_man wrote: "Looks like Bennett's ignorant of the fact that Republicans are more charitable than Democrats, not that I'm so impressed with some of our Republicans right now."

I suppose if I were to challenge your statement by offering that you can't begin to back it up, you'll respond with a quotation of Joe Biden's tax return and compare it to Mitt Romney's tax return.

The fact is that there is no way to prove your contentious allegation. Many people do not claim what the donate to a soul, including the IRS. A comparison of the claimed charitable donations of two prominent politicians does not tell the entire tale.

February 9, 2013 at 8:29 p.m.
patriot1 said...

alpo....Being the "registered republican" you are, I'm sure you have to be quite the benevolent one, why would you want to challenge it?

February 9, 2013 at 8:35 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

"So … Humans are simply appendages and mouths-to-feed. This is the inhumane hysteria that grips the fascist left. What a pitiful, heartless, cynical understanding of humanity." - wwwtw

Of course that POTENTIAL baby is more than a mere appendage. But the fact is that it is still an embryo or fetus and it is still an APPENDAGE, as long as it is attached to the lining of the mother's womb. And until that fetus/embryo has viability, able to live on its own, the mother should be able to decide what to do about it, period. Now, when it is possible that the fetus can live on its own, at some point in the second or third trimester, then other factors need to be weighed concerning the mother's options. But at least until that time comes, the mother should have no restriction whatsoever placed on her about whether to resort to abortion or not. It is nobody's business but hers, and, yes, you effin' self-righteous pricks should BUTT OUT.

Call me a fascist if you want to but you are the one who is pitiful, heartless, and cynical when it comes to living, breathing human beings outside the womb. You irrational, heartless, despicable righties consider everyone who is out of work and down and out to be nothing but "takers" and moochers regardless of what the circumstances are that put them there. What's more, the fact is that the vast majority of women who have had abortions over the years come from that "taker" status and would have given birth to more "taker" babies, the very people you imbecilic righties despise. You want the government to force every pregnant woman to carry to term but you DON'T want that government to institute programs and policies that would help the impoverished mothers to raise their kids in a way that would get them out of the vicious cycle of poverty and crime. Your righteous indignation is hypocritical and downright laughable. If you think I'm the least bit upset by your self-righteous put-down, think again. You are disgusting.

February 9, 2013 at 8:36 p.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

***Shall we carry the 'woman's right to her own body' to the

absurd conclusion into which it would terminate?*** The illogical

application of this 'right' is laughable. No human has the right,

or, authority to terminate the life process began at conception.

Even for the people who deny God, this would in effect attempt to

make 'them' god. Once they claim god-ship then they could destroy/

murder something/someone? that/who only came from their body. (And

this is to NOT take the child's father into consideration).

Example: The (So Called)) Mother may be of the Mormon Cult and

deplore the fact that her 15 year old daughter has become a true

Christian. The (So Called) Mother could then claim 'right' to her

own body and decide to murder/destroy that part of her body that

has inconvenienced her. Slaughter House Abortionist Medical

Doctors and their patients have not thought through the eternal

consequences of their (pro?) choices.***

***There is no question about it: Abortion is Murder. Slaughter

House Abortionists Murder Children.***

kwo

February 9, 2013 at 9:02 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Orr,

"No human has the right,or, authority to terminate the life process began at conception."

The mother has the right and the authority. Without the mother, the fetus cannot live.

"Even for the people who deny God, this would in effect attempt to make 'them' god."

No, it wouldn't. It would make them logical.

"Once they claim god-ship then they could destroy/murder something/someone? that/who only came from their body."

No one is claiming "god-ship".

"(And this is to NOT take the child's father into consideration)."

The father isn't carrying the child.

"Example:"

Your example is bullsh!t.

"Abortion is Murder. SlaughterHouse Abortionists Murder Children."

Demonstrably and verifiably false on both accounts.

February 9, 2013 at 9:14 p.m.
ORRMEANSLIGHT said...

Be it far from me to deny the 'So-Called' Mother the right to shake it at da'Club!

Whodo, Who do You think You're foolin'?

Ken

February 9, 2013 at 9:37 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Orr,

"Be it far from me to deny the 'So-Called' Mother the right to shake it at da'Club!"

What does that have to do with abortion or anything that you've said to this point?

"Whodo, Who do You think You're foolin'?"

Seriously, who do you think you're fooling?

February 9, 2013 at 9:43 p.m.
alprova said...

patriot1 wrote: "I'm sure you have to be quite the benevolent one, why would you want to challenge it?"

You'll never know because one trait that some people feel the need to do, that I find most distasteful, is to brag.

And that's all I have to type about that...

February 9, 2013 at 10:03 p.m.
mountainlaurel said...

“Conservative concludes: “To do what you suggest would be a gross misinterpretation of Scripture and would make that person a burden on society. He would also be disobedient to God because of his slothfulness. Please don't insult me by saying that you have taken your own advice.”

We were discussing reasons often associated with poverty, Conservative. I wasn’t giving you spiritual advice. The biblical reference was simply one more possibility. As I’ve already stated, the man in Bennett's cartoon could very well be someone who had sold everything he once owned, had distributed all of his money to the poor, and is standing on that corner to give people the opportunity to demonstrate an act of kindness and compassion.

As to your negative attitude about people who are economically poor, I find you’re perspective religiously repugnant, but you’re entitled to your opinion. As to Jesus, we know what he had to say about these things:

Luke 6:20-21 Then he looked up at his disciples and said: 'Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.

Luke 14:12-14 He said also to the one who had invited him, "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the right.

February 9, 2013 at 10:21 p.m.
fairmon said...

John F. Kennedy held a dinner in the white House for a group of the brightest minds in the nation at that time. He made this statement: "This is perhaps the assembly of the most intelligence ever to gather at one time in the White House, with the exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."

Jefferson was a brilliant man. Some of his quotes describe where we are now as he predicted we might be.

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." -- Thomas Jefferson

February 9, 2013 at 10:44 p.m.
Maximus said...

Dickaroo ah ah Prickaroo...what do you want then? A world run by gay a holes like someone called Rickaroo. What are you something out of Winnie The Pooh Gay World?...not that there is anything wrong with that. All you have is to call someone ignorant when the reality is you flunked the GED exam. I'd like to see your W2 for 2012. I'll wager it says "0" just like you Rickaroo an ignorant zero. Free enterprise coexisting with your world of lazy do nothing we are the world utopian united nations loser world. Please do yourself a favor and put a bullet in your head sooner rather than later. You ignorant, penniless, welfare, peon.

February 9, 2013 at 11:45 p.m.
Maximus said...

I did not know that Clay was the begger depicted in his doodle. I knew that the TFP was bankrupt but this. OMG!

February 9, 2013 at 11:47 p.m.

The pagans raged … "Of course that POTENTIAL baby is more than a mere appendage. But the fact is that it is still an embryo or fetus and it is still an APPENDAGE, as long as it is attached to the lining of the mother's womb" and "There is a clear difference between a fetus/embryo and a human outside the womb."

And there are clear differences at each stage of fetal development. (Thus, the term “development.”) Where does science or medicine (or any sane human being) use the term “POTENTIAL baby” to refer to a human baby in fetal development? The fetuses in question are not those of elephants, porpoises, or mice. They are human fetuses. Your tortured euphemisms and folk taxonomy are silly. The DNA of aborted first-trimester human fetuses unmistakably reads “human.” And why is it that the “potential” baby “appends” itself to the mother’s womb? Dependence on the mother for nutrition does not diminish his or her humanity. Another POTENTIAL mouth to feed? You guys are a bit creepy.

Continue caring for widows and orphans, believers. Continue driving out slavery, superstition, and ignorance. Pagans can only feign omniscience and omnipotence about human potential. Their folly will undo them.

February 9, 2013 at 11:50 p.m.
dude_abides said...

Christ on a jet ski, Maximus, are you hitting the bath salts again? You couldn't embarrass yourself more if you took lessons! Who gets beaten more in your household, your wife or her kids?

February 10, 2013 at 12:04 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova:

"How utterly convenient for you. What a good little scriptural cherry-picker you are. Did you intentionally leave out Mark 10:17?"

No I did not. Another false accusation by you. You see, I intentionally INCLUDED v17 of Mark chapter 10. This is what I wrote :

"This man had come to Jesus and asked him how he could inherit eternal life v17. He falsely claimed he had observed all of the commandments v20. Jesus knew he had not. Jesus knew his wealth was standing in the man's way from following him so Jesus told the man to sell everything. He refused and went away grieved v22."

Read the first sentence alprova. I did not leave out v17. "This man had come to Jesus and asked him how he could inherit eternal life v17"

Read the first sentence alprova. I did not leave out v17. "This man had come to Jesus and asked him how he could inherit eternal life v17"

Read the first sentence alprova. I did not leave out v17. "This man had come to Jesus and asked him how he could inherit eternal life v17"

You are one poor miserable man alprova. I feel so sorry for you but your continual misuse of Scripture when you know so little about Scripture, I just won't put up with.

February 10, 2013 at 8:11 a.m.
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