published Sunday, February 3rd, 2013

John McCain

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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Salsa said...

Looks like a certain cartoonist is butt hurt.

February 3, 2013 at 12:04 a.m.
AndrewLohr said...

And our cartoonist isn't even a maverick; he's a bird with only a left wing. Grow right, young man.

Senators McCain, Alexander, and Corker trust the Islamic Brotherhood running Egypt with F-16s; not even nagging about it.

February 3, 2013 at 12:07 a.m.
limric said...

Good cartoon Clay.

Senator John McCain, 'Old Nag & Horses Ass'.

February 3, 2013 at 12:54 a.m.
fairmon said...

Add Reid to the scene, two relics or old plow horses and one nag, Pelosi, to complete the picture.

Members of congress to be elgible to run for the office should be required to pass the college entrance exam each time they run. My guess is that aound 80% now in office would not be eligible.

February 3, 2013 at 1:01 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

SHOOT FIRST

After 9/11 John McCain was one of those republican "authorities" who repeatedly appeared on Sunday talk shows to assure us that invading Iraq was the military equivalent of a walk in the park. Sure, we'd be welcomed as liberators, obviously Saddam had WMD, of course our troops would be back home in no time, and naturally the cost would be paid with Iraqi oil. What could possibly go wrong?

No wonder republicans would rather look forward.

At the time I told him and anyone else who would listen that if Saddam had WMD either UN inspectors would have found it, the Israel's would have destroyed it, or both. I said Bin Laden would never collaborate with a self-indulgent ego-manical tyrant like Saddam Hussein who had murdered thousands of fellow Muslims.

Today John thinks we were right to invade Iraq and should never have ended the war. He says that we should send troops to Syria, and "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb-bomb Iran."

To be fair, John fought in Viet Nam, was shot down, and tortured for years by the North Vietnamese. He still can't raise his hands above his shoulders. You might be bitter, too, if you went through that. But how do you defend someone who lost to George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and selected Sarah Palin for Vice President? At least he was no Reagan, who raised taxes 12 times, gave amnesty to illegal aliens, and whose response to the slaughter of hundreds of Marines in Lebanon was to cut and run.

John may be only braying at the moon these days but at least he's no Reagan.

February 3, 2013 at 1:23 a.m.
MasterBlaster said...

John McCain. A tired old loser who really should have been put to pasture over a decade ago...

February 3, 2013 at 1:42 a.m.
nucanuck said...

While McCain has been an unpredictable maverick on domestic issues, he has been unwavering in his support of the application of military force to resolve international issues. He was never a military maverick. The US defense industry has no better friend than John McCain. Had McCain been elected, who can doubt that the US would be heavily involved in multiple conflicts around the globe.

Old war horses seldom give a good ride.

February 3, 2013 at 1:44 a.m.
carlB said...

McCain is another Republican that has shown poor judgment as a politician. What has he really done during his politican years for the building up of this Republic?
The Republicans want a Strong Military force but at the same time want to destroy and weaken the government for the people and by the people, without supporting a strong Balanced economic system where sacrifices are made by everybody. McCain's "acting as a bully" anywhere to get other people to lower themselves to his "thinking" of mistakes that have occurred is an indication that he has used up his usefulness as a politician.

February 3, 2013 at 7:31 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova, MtJohn:

You both failed miserably and that is as kind as I can put it.

MTJohn:

You called the following a principle, but it more than that. It is a commandment of God.

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:"

"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deuteronomy 6:4-5"

Now, MTJohn, recall your words:

"Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself."

"I'm all for reforming public education based on that principle"

In your haste to be sanctimonious with me MTJohn, you trapped yourself, as I said before. Someone who truly loved their neighbor and who sought to obey that commandment of God and the words of Jesus would surely seek to instruct school children in God's word.

Do either of you think sharing, instructing, teaching the word of God with school children would be fulfilling that command in part?

But no, you two sanctimonious frauds would never allow children to escape the public school system where children would get an opportunity for an education and instruction in God's word whether it be a Christian school, a Jewish school, a Catholic or some other faith.

You two sanctimonious frauds are typical of those who Jesus rebuked sharply:

"But Jesus said , Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven" Matthew 19:14 KJV

Also, Jesus said, and this is for the both of you:

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come ; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh ! Mathew 18: 6-7.

I WILL CONTINUE.

February 3, 2013 at 9:03 a.m.
GameOn said...

Off topic from the Defense Intelligence Agency:

A week after women were cleared to serve in combat, Defense Intelligence Agency employees got a different message. "Makeup makes you more attractive." "Don't be a plain Jane." "A sweater with a skirt is better than a sweater with slacks." "No flats." "Paint your nails." "Don't be afraid of color." And, "brunettes have more leeway with vibrant colors than blondes or redheads."

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2013/02/01/fashion-advice-at-the-dia-makeup-makes-you-more-attractive

February 3, 2013 at 9:04 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Conservative is the forum's Fred Phelps. He's nothing more than a snake-handling backwater homophobic mouth-breather.He and his delusional god are room-mates in the Moccasin Bend Rubber Room where they plot the destruction of everything and everyone, except for Conservative and his Westboro Baptist Church bunch of intellectuals and all-around nice folks.

Conservative is like the insane preacher in the movie "Red State."

Maybe Conservative will go to meet the Lord real soon.

February 3, 2013 at 9:43 a.m.
Rebus said...

Old limited talent toon boy Bennett should draw a crowd depicting national unrest, featuring himself in forefront with a large can of gasoline and a bic lighter.

February 3, 2013 at 9:58 a.m.
Rebus said...

DD: Ever ugly. DD,, do you do crayons?

February 3, 2013 at 9:59 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

REbus_Jack Dennis,

You should be honored Clay has your in the cartoon today. Right under the old nag's tail.

Like McCain, you've should be put out to pasture. Ready for the glue factory?

February 3, 2013 at 10:17 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Jack_Rebus_Dennis,

You have to be a special kind of stupid to label someone "ugly" when, in the post directly before it, you attempted to insult the cartoonist.

Your hypocrisy is turning into idiocy, old timer.

February 3, 2013 at 10:22 a.m.
Maximus said...

While I would want Senator McCain on my side during a fire fight, his time, as well as that of the Vietnam era burnout Chuck Hagel, is over. When the "RINO's" (Republicans In Name Only), like McCain, retire or just move out of the way, the conservative Republican's will take the White House away from the emotion driven teenagers currently in charge and lead this country once again to prosperity. Our current secular humanist leadership led by the Welfare Pimp Obama is all about feel good with no accountability. Yes, I have met very few leftist liberals that like that word....accountable. Like abiding by and following the U.S. Constitution, being accountable does not fit their life philosophy of relative morality. In life and in government, there are no rules, only gray areas. After all, who should be the judge or who or what should I be accountable to? It is complicated but it boils down to most liberals are just spoiled brats.

February 3, 2013 at 10:30 a.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "alprova, MtJohn: You both failed miserably and that is as kind as I can put it."

Oh my.

"MTJohn: You called the following a principle, but it more than that. It is a commandment of God."

Principle = basic assumption: an important underlying law or assumption required in a system of thought.

ethical standard: a standard of moral or ethical decision-making.

The only failure in evidence is your refusal to understand the definition of a word. A principle is very much a synonym for the word "law" or a "commandment."

You would know this if perhaps you were as well versed in academics as you claim to be about religion.

"In your haste to be sanctimonious with me MTJohn, you trapped yourself, as I said before. Someone who truly loved their neighbor and who sought to obey that commandment of God and the words of Jesus would surely seek to instruct school children in God's word."

You are as ignorant to the meaning of the word "sanctimonious" as you are "principle."

And HERE is where you and I part ways. Most churches set aside time, twice per week, providing ample opportunity to focus all their time on instructing adults AND children in all things pertaining to the religious platform of their choice.

Public schools on the other hand, are institutions provided to children with the priority being focused on academic instruction.

For some strange reason, there are people, much like yourself, who feel that academic instruction should take a back seat to religious instruction.

In your haste to be sanctimonious with all whom you engage in debate in this forum, you seem to have an immense amount of trouble dealing with reality and understanding where it is that religious instruction starts and ends.

"Do either of you think sharing, instructing, teaching the word of God with school children would be fulfilling that command in part?"

In church and in the home...yes. In a public school...no.

"But no, you two sanctimonious frauds would never allow children to escape the public school system where children would get an opportunity for an education and instruction in God's word whether it be a Christian school, a Jewish school, a Catholic or some other faith."

I have no problem whatsoever with any parent placing their children in the religious school of their choice. But I do have a problem with tax money being deferred from our public schools to do it.

Public schools are set aside to be used by all. If one desires a curriculum for their children that includes religious instruction, then they can pay for that privilege out of their own pockets.

"Also, Jesus said, and this is for the both of you:"

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me..."

I have done nothing to offend a little one and any assertion by you that I have, can be stuffed where the Sun doesn't shine.

"I WILL CONTINUE."

Knock yourself out you kook.

February 3, 2013 at 10:32 a.m.
nucanuck said...

c-man, if you are an example of a good Christian, I predict that Christianity will become an ever smaller tribe.

February 3, 2013 at 10:33 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Conservative, by his own words, would convert public schools into Christian madrassas.

Any doubt that CONservative would make a good Muslim fanatic? Just like many of the Nazi-fanatical German generals captured by the Russians who went on to become true believers in Communism?

The unquestioning true believers in religion make the most unquestioning true believers in a new religion when their alliances change. Their sophistry never ends.

February 3, 2013 at 11 a.m.
acerigger said...

President Obama warns of the dangers of eating yellow snow. Republicans up in arms.

by Mark E Andersen

President Obama is warning Americans of the dangers of eating yellow snow during this week's radio address. Immediately after the address House Speaker John Boehner and Senate Minority leader Mitch McConnell held a press conference to announce the introduction a bill that would preserve the rights of Americans to eat yellow snow and to tout the health benefits of eating yellow snow.

Shortly afterwards Rush Limbaugh went on the air and stated that conservatives across the southern states were up in arms about the socialist agenda that prevents snow from falling in the south, thus preventing southerners from enjoying yellow snow. The Drudge Report and Breitbart.com have picked up the story and have posted videos of a janitor working at the USDA stating that, “Yes…no snow…in…the south…socialism.” It is unknown at this time if the video was manipulated in anyway.

February 3, 2013 at 11:02 a.m.
alprova said...

Maximus has offered his own version of "I Have A Dream!!" speech.

The only way that a religious conservative will ever capture the White House, will be if he or she is good at hiding their intention to install the religion of their choice into the United States Government. That will be all but impossible.

And as I posted last week, the American people are very adept at sniffing the air with their noses and smelling the truth, because such a candidate will stink to high heaven.

Who will be this mystery Republican candidate be? Every candidate that has ever run for the Presidency has a record to defend and to account for. Religious conservatives stick out like a sore thumb. They cannot hide their true intentions for so much as a minute.

Religious conservatives have attempted to seize the Republican Party from those who know the danger of mixing religion and Government. It is not the other way around.

Religious conservatives know full and well that they cannot achieve their goals by forming their own political party and running for office as such, which is why Tea-Partiers made an attempt to sieze control of the Republican Party.

All they have done, since the election of 2010, was to assure that Barack Obama won his reelection to a second term and to totally muck up Congress.

If the Congressional disapproval ratings hold over the next two years, I'll bet that any mention of the Tea-Party by a candidate will be the kiss of death to their campaign, even if such a candidate is running for office in the Bible Belt.

The Republicans have had control of the House for two full years and to date, not one productive piece of legislation has been passed that gives so much as one American any belief that the Republicans, much less Tea-Partiers, have done one thing to revive the economy of this nation.

All that has been witnessed coming from the 112th Congress is a procession of failed legislative efforts to repeal ObamaCare, to prohibit abortion, to restrict gay marriage, and a full blown effort dedicated to the issue of online piracy.

While there are those who love to lay all that which is negative at the feet of the President, there is nothing...and I do mean nothing, that the national Republicans have achieved that would give any cognitive American any reason to cast a vote for one of their candidates.

Good luck in two years. In four years, I have serious doubts that a Republican horse will be able to find his or her way out of the gate.

February 3, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

John McCain is a symbol of a major problem with the current Republican party, the obsession with projecting power all over the globe with little or no regard for national sovereignty. The sooner these war mongers are purged from the party the better.

Note that this problem also exists within the Democrat party. Obama seems to think he is entitled to strike where he wants, when he wants, with no regard for national borders.

Our federal government recklessly makes enemies all over the world and then uses the resulting blowback to justify the destruction of our individual rights and freedom.

February 3, 2013 at 11:52 a.m.
Easy123 said...

BRP,

"Obama seems to think he is entitled to strike where he wants, when he wants, with no regard for national borders."

Breaching that border did allow us to capture the most notorious terrorist of all time, but that always seems to get overlooked. While I don't agree with most, if not all, of the measures this country takes in terms of war and "spreading" our brand of democracy, killing bin Laden was one of the very few positives.

February 3, 2013 at 12:06 p.m.
acerigger said...

BigRidgePatriot,is that really you @ 11:52? Somehow,I've had the impression in the past that you were one of those "America,love it or leave it" ideologues. That said,even if you lean toward that perspective,its good to see that you realize that "Our federal government recklessly makes enemies all over the world and then uses the resulting blowback to justify the destruction of our individual rights and freedom." I must wonder though,did you think that during the Bush years? Peace,Bro

February 3, 2013 at 12:09 p.m.
nucanuck said...

BRP,

That is conservatism that the world can agree with. And I agree with you that Obama and the Democrats have equally dirty hands when it comes to global military over-reach.

Treating all countries with respect and an announced policy of non-intervention would go a long way to neutralizing the strong anti-American feelings that are currently so wide-spread.

February 3, 2013 at 12:30 p.m.
carlB said...

Tennessee Democratic VOTERS have got to get "FIRED UP"! WHEN THE VOTERS VOTE IN THE GENERAL election, there are not any records of how/whom you voted for. What you do in the voting booth in a General Election "Stays in with you"! Be careful about confessing to anybody. Voting your "true principles" has become a serious part of our lives

February 3, 2013 at 12:43 p.m.
dude_abides said...

BRP is picking the gripe du jour. Troops in? Risking American lives. Troops out? Defeat/weakness/Benghazi! Drones? Recklessly making enemies. Republican President? Silence.

February 3, 2013 at 1:02 p.m.
canarysong said...

On yesterday's thread MtJohn, Alprova, and I all found ourselves debating around the issue of compassion, or the 'Ethic of Reciprocity', known in Christianity as the 'Golden Rule'. Although we were talking with different people about two different topics, compassion was the core issue. This morning I stumbled across this great little TED Talk by Karen Armstrong, a noted religious historian. I've read a couple of her books and, although our conclusions about the existence of a god (or gods) are not the same, I respect her very much. Whether you are liberal or conservative, religious or not, I think you'll feel this is ten minutes of your time well spent. Happy Sunday - enjoy!

February 3, 2013 at 2:20 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova,MtJohn:

Now, since I am sure you two still don't get it, I will elaborate.

MTJohn, I wanted you to specifically state that you got your "Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself." from the Bible or that you got it from Scripture because I wanted to point out YOUR HYPOCRICY.

Your hypocricy being that you don't want the Bible or Scripture taught in public school or allow children to escape public school through vouchers so that they might be instructed in the word of God and thus fulfill these COMMANDMENTS:

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. Mark 12:29-31

You two were so blind in trying to find fault with me that neither of you could see YOUR CONTRADICTION in disallowing the Bible to be taught in school or allow some children to attend a school where the Bible or Scripture is taught, thus obeying the command above.

February 3, 2013 at 2:21 p.m.
Rebus said...

Boys, boys, boys. I'll gladly trade you one John MCain for one Harry Reid. 2 down, next?

February 3, 2013 at 2:49 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Conservative is an excellent example of why religion as fact isn't allowed in public schools, is not to be allowed in government, and why so many people are choosing to leave religion, as advocated by Conservative, behind to the Fred Phelps, Jimmy Swaggerts and Mike Huckabees of Christianity.

Thanks Conservative for helping human secularism to spread. Keep up the good work.

February 3, 2013 at 3:03 p.m.
canarysong said...

I was thinking something similar right before reading your post, daytonsdarwin. Conservative is a good example of that old adage, "can't see the forest for the trees". He's so busy nitpicking scripture that he can't seem to feel or practice what that scripture is teaching: to feel compassion for others and to treat them as you would like to be treated. It seems so simple, yet so many people of various faiths get bogged down in the particulars as they totally lose sight of the core message, just as Karen Armstrong was saying.

The Dalai Lama has expressed the opinion that we need to move away from religion and toward a more universal ethic of compassion, one that unites rather than divides. I don't see us making much progress toward creating a better, more just world until we do exactly that.

February 3, 2013 at 3:44 p.m.
dude_abides said...

What's crazy is that the Muslims, from Wahabbists to Salafist Jihadists, with their zero sum religious war, see Christianity as the expansionist religion, and they are right! They'll be fighting the Crusaders until the end of time. Religion is like that old parlor game telephone line, except each participant whispers their version of the message and then runs off to live it as the truth. Intransigence is a virtue with these folks.

February 3, 2013 at 4:23 p.m.
GameOn said...

Schools were a whole lot safer and more productive when the Bible was taught in the classroom. We did not have a need for SRO (Police) officers in schools and the graduation rates were a whole lot higher. We took away the Bible, took away discipline, started passing kids for failing, and gave them a trophy for losing a ball game. Now we have one big mess and we use to be the world standard in education. What changed?

February 3, 2013 at 4:23 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

oooops graduations rates are higher now than ever.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-high-school-graduation-rate-increasing-20130122,0,3444079.story

Drop out rates are down, more kids are graduating on time.

Schools are safer than ever. Crime in schools has fallen too. Ooops. What was your argument again?

February 3, 2013 at 4:29 p.m.
canarysong said...

When was the bible taught in the classroom? Not in my lifetime, and I'm in my 50's. In the 1800's? Lots of things have changed since then!

Besides, correlation does not prove causation.

February 3, 2013 at 4:33 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Great talk by Karen Armstrong. For a long time now I have believed that the Golden Rule is really the only "religion" one needs. As for how to live a moral, loving, and meaningful life, the entire Bible could be reduced to a few pages. The conception of the Old Testament God as a jealous, vindictive, ego-maniacal, genocidal deity should be dispensed with entirely and relegated to the realm of dreadful, evil fairy tales, where it (he) belongs.

Christianity has evolved, at least, from the days of the Crusades and the Inquisition and the witch burnings. But until it finally evolves to the point of no longer giving credence to a God - and a male God, at that - who casts his own children into an eternal hell for the mere "sin" of choosing to exercise their God-given reason and to believe in accordance with their own God-given conscience, then it will still be nothing more than a Dark Ages religion based more on fear of death and of hell than one based on genuine love and concern with living a moral and meaningful life.

February 3, 2013 at 4:40 p.m.
Rebus said...

nucanuck: and you guys could serve them scones.

February 3, 2013 at 4:48 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Christianity was not taught in classroom. Bible stories were read. Those were stories that offered a moral tale, like the "Good Samaritan," or the "Golden Rule" — just like Aesop's Fables.

There was not the dogmatic Christianity, Old Testament hatred, the condemning and warring God, the abominations of Revelation as factual, the Calvinist persecutions of other people, and sectarian promise of hell to everyone except the chosen few.

When dogmatic, anti-scientific, Calvinistic Christianity, wrapped in hate, exclusion, and proselytizing became the norm with the rise of right-wing religious fundamentalism, then it was necessary to cease the simple Bible stories to stop the Christian fanaticism creeping into the message.

Who's to blame for that? Not the ACLU, not the social liberals, not freethinkers, but the raging Calvinist Christian fundamentalist extremists who declared war on rationality, reason, science and free thought.

February 3, 2013 at 4:52 p.m.
canarysong said...

Thanks for the link, lkeithlu.

Something else that pulls the rug out from under GameOn's supposition is that the state with the highest graduation rate, Vermont at 91.4%, is also the state with the highest number of residents who claim no religious affiliation, 34%.

February 3, 2013 at 5:07 p.m.
fairmon said...

I am not a religious person but I do believe if a person lived by and did not break the ten commandments they would be better than most people. I tend to be a hermit more than a joiner of mobs. I am not wealthy but not into the all for one, one for all mentality. I willingly help those unable to do for themselves due to age, illness or injury and I would never neglect a child but those healthy and able to fend for themselves, including me, would be SOL if it were up to me. A lot of governments (local, state and federal) frivilous spending is sickening.

February 3, 2013 at 5:26 p.m.
Maximus said...

Alprova I said nothing about religious conservatives. Sen. Ted Cruz, Sen. Marco Rubio, Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn, the list of young leaders in the Republican Party is strong. After a miserable four years of feel good Barry a lot of Americans will want to convert to the economic freedom and prosperity of the Republican party. Alprova, who knows, with a new Republican president we might even get the country back on a budget and Alprova I am so glad you got your class warfare tax increase on the so called rich.....a lot of good it did for thr economy since Barry already sent the $60 billion in tax revenue to New Jersey. Obamacare is dead in the water, the gays still aren't happy, and the middle east is on fire....the Democrats will be toast come 2016!

February 3, 2013 at 5:32 p.m.
Maximus said...

Alprova...I forgot to tell you that all of my stock holdings in evil private sector companies are doing FANTASTIC, Like Ive always said at the end of the day I could care less who the President or Gov is Maximus is going to take care of business and always be self reliant. Got to hit the media room for the Super Bowl! Life is good$$$$!

February 3, 2013 at 5:39 p.m.
fairmon said...

I fail to understand why anyone wants to persuade or even insist that someone else believe the same as they do. Why should I give a rip if someone believes or not as long as they obey the laws and don't steal from or interfere with me? That is one of the problems in the middle east and north Africa, tribes that want to rule and force others to comply with their beliefs and laws. The concern we need to have is the expanding control by governments. A government cannot give to one without confiscating it from another. Most legislation takes away a little liberty to chose and freedom from all or some. It is a slow process and difficult to know when it is too much therefore when realized it will be too late to stop it. It is not a conspiracy, it is just the way people are. Some think they should have the power and others want them to have it and will follow them like sheep.

February 3, 2013 at 5:41 p.m.
jesse said...

Canarysong, I graduated from high school in 1958 From the 7 th,grade onward ,once a week we had a 1 hour Bible class!It was mandatory,NOT optional!!Little ole Granny lady taught it in 11 &12 grade,she WAS NOT a biblical scholar by any means!

February 3, 2013 at 5:56 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative responded with: "alprova,MtJohn: Now, since I am sure you two still don't get it, I will elaborate."

Please elaborate, so that my mind will be filled with your wisdom.

"MTJohn, I wanted you to specifically state that you got your "Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself." from the Bible or that you got it from Scripture because I wanted to point out YOUR HYPOCRICY."

And I am the Pope. You are hardly in any position to point out hypocrisy in someone else, for you have yet to deal with your own.

Here you are harping the word, when you have failed many times the test of loving your neighbor when it comes to the Gov't helping the poor with your tax dollars. You Sir, are one of many poster children of hypocrisy.

"Your hypocricy being that you don't want the Bible or Scripture taught in public school or allow children to escape public school through vouchers so that they might be instructed in the word of God..."

There is a time and a place for everything, including religious instruction. There is nothing hypocritical in the least sense of the word about recognizing the need for separation of religion from academic instruction.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet that God would agree. It is every parent's responsibility to assure that their children are raised to be able to function in the real world.

"...and thus fulfill these COMMANDMENTS: 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. Mark 12:29-31"

"You two were so blind in trying to find fault with me that neither of you could see YOUR CONTRADICTION in disallowing the Bible to be taught in school or allow some children to attend a school where the Bible or Scripture is taught, thus obeying the command above."

First of all, where in that scriptural quote that you have submitted are the words that command anyone to teach the Bible in any school whatsoever? I'd love to read your explanation in finite detail.

Redefining and reading more into scripture than what is written has become your shtick. You're working overtime on this one.

Secondly, neither MTJohn nor myself has a doggone thing with whether or not the Bible is taught in any public school. Every school district throughout this nation has a school board, where the curriculum is set forth for the schools contained in their districts.

Third, I have absolutely stated more than once that I have no issue whatsoever with any parent who seeks to educate their children in the religious school of their choice.

(To be continued)

February 3, 2013 at 6:03 p.m.
alprova said...

(Continued)

And lastly, my opinion that funds set aside for public schools do not deserve to be yanked out of those public schools and used for religious indoctrination, is based on the first Amendment of the United States Constitution, which prohibits the "passing or creation of any law respecting an establishment of a religion."

Just as you would be the first to argue that taxpayer money used by anyone to pay for an abortion is wrong, I find it just as wrong for one penny to be used to pay for religious instruction.

Federal funds diverted to religious based schools, by definition, would be an endorsement and an establishment of religion that could never come to pass without passing a law to allow it.

Any parent who wants to indoctrinate their children will have to do it without taxpayer funding being taken away from public schools.

That is not just my opinion, but those of most lawmakers, including many Conservatives as well.

February 3, 2013 at 6:04 p.m.
canarysong said...

Wow, jesse. I'm glad that changed by the time I moved to the U.S.

One of the things for which I'm most grateful to my parents is that they raised me in a secular home. They both went out of their way to model altruism, always helping someone in need, but religion had nothing to do with it.

February 3, 2013 at 6:05 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova,MTJohn:

Are you two getting it yet? If you obey the commandment of the word of God to "Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself." you will certainly want school children to receive instruction in the word of God.

Do you think the two of you are escaping the notice and wrath of God in your efforts and opposition to the word of God being taught in school to his children?

February 3, 2013 at 6:29 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Do you think the two of you are escaping the notice and wrath of God in your efforts and opposition to the word of God being taught in school to his children?

Which god? Thor? Allah? or the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

February 3, 2013 at 6:38 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike:

Game on was dead on in his remarks.

You constantly get it wrong.

Bible and prayer was taken out of school in the early sixties. Graduation rates were higher then. Schools were much safer then. There was little crime in school then.

You are once again 100% wrong. Your atheism is astonishing.

February 3, 2013 at 6:45 p.m.
GameOn said...

Okay. The rates have gone up a little bit in the last couple of years. My mistake. Passing all of those failing children helped out more than I thought. Emphasizing Math and Science helps. Fewer subjects to worry about. They know nothing about history, cannot write in cursive (it is no longer taught), etc. So, why do we need SRO's in schools today?

February 3, 2013 at 6:46 p.m.
alprova said...

I have never heard of a mandatory 1 hour Bible class in any school, at least not in this century.

But, right here in Chattanooga, "Bible In The Schools" is a 501(c)(3) that promotes Bible literacy, and it has existed in Hamilton County Schools, as well as other Tennessee school districts since 1922.

The organization develops curriculum, training and financial resources for elective, for-credit courses in Bible history, using the Bible as the text, taught in a controlled curriculum by trained and certified middle and high school teachers employed by the Hamilton County school system.

In 1922, J. P. McCallie, founder of The McCallie School and chair of the Religious Work Committee of the Chattanooga YMCA, approached the Chattanooga City Commission to provide Bible courses adapted to the various ages from 4th grade through high school, taught by teachers selected and paid by the Bible Study Committee, and that were subject to the principals and the Board of Education in scholarship and discipline.

The program was approved and later expanded into the Hamilton County schools. Today, 4,000-5,000 public school students elect a Bible history class each year.

Five courses are offered by state-certified teachers. Classes are for-credit and considered part of the Social Studies curriculum in the high schools and the related arts curriculum in the middle schools. Doctrine is not taught.

The courses are taught as history and literature so that students can have a better understanding of the Bible.

I personally took Bible literature courses in High school myself, in Tuscon, Arizona during the early 1970's. I loved them. Those courses have been responsible for my being able to appreciate the Bible as a masterpiece of literature.

Just as the case is here in Hamilton County, there was NEVER a hint of "religious instruction." The goal in mind was always to instill an appreciation for the literature and the stories contained in the Bible.

I fully endorse such classes, and urge anyone with a child to encourage their children to elect to enroll in such a class for at least one semester.

February 3, 2013 at 6:50 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

You didn't answer, con. Which god should we fear? Remember, there have been many over the centuries.

Want some data that dates back to the 60s?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2900934/figure/F1/

Remember: No one has closed churches, stopped Sunday School, eliminated seminaries during this time. Religion has had all the advantages, including tax exemptions, it needed to thrive. There was NO need to teach sectarian religion in schools. AND the data disproves your notion that not teaching about Jesus is causing school drop-outs, violence or failure to graduate.

Nice try

February 3, 2013 at 6:53 p.m.
canarysong said...

conservative: "If you obey the commandment of the word of God to 'Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself.' you will certainly want school children to receive instruction in the word of God."

Most people don't want others beliefs pushed on them or on their children. So, it stands to reason that "love your neighbor as yourself", when applied to the issue of religion in schools, would mean keeping religious doctrine OUT of school so that each parent is free to teach their OWN values unimpeded. That is showing respect or "love" for your neighbor. Do you really think that the Hindu American, the Buddhist, the Jew, or the atheist feels "loved" when you insert your doctrine into their children's public school curriculum?

February 3, 2013 at 6:57 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Do you really think that the Hindu American, the Buddhist, the Jew, or the atheist feels "loved" when you insert your doctrine into their children's public school curriculum?

Canary, conservative doesn't recognize these as religions, and therefore the children of these families FOR THEIR OWN GOOD must be taught about fundamentalist Christian doctrine.

February 3, 2013 at 7:01 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

When you think of Conservative (altogether not a pleasant thought) imagine the psychopathic Charles Manson, racist Father Coughlin, and drunken Joe McCarthy rolled into one, spewing forth his crazy god-talk as a wild-eyed, sputum-spewing, women-hating madman.

It makes you laugh at him, his imaginary deity, and the bed-bugs in his delusional little brain.

Conservative, we're not laughing with you; we're laughing at you.

February 3, 2013 at 7:01 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "alprova,MTJohn: Are you two getting it yet?"

Obviously not. I'm still just as convinced that you are an evangelical kook as I have always been.

"If you obey the commandment of the word of God to "Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself." you will certainly want school children to receive instruction in the word of God."

That's your tale and your creation of fiction. As usual, your elaborations miss the mark by a country mile.

Where does the Bible instruct me that religion should be taught in public schools...specifically? It's certainly not to be found in what you have offered thus far.

Your interpretations are not God's word. Your interpretations are not commandments...period. Your interpretations are not even reflective of the intent or the context that they were presented in the Bible.

You've got a real problem interpreting the Bible and you live in a world all of your own creation. Your problems are not mine and they never will be.

"Do you think the two of you are escaping the notice and wrath of God in your efforts and opposition to the word of God being taught in school to his children?"

I don't happen to subscribe to any belief that there is any such thing as the "wrath of God." I do recognize the fact that there are passages written in the Bible that describe it, but then you and I part ways as to who wrote the Bible in the first place.

You are wasting your time to ever think that you will convince me that you have an ounce of understanding of the tenets of Christianity or the Bible.

Most people would recognize this and move on with their life, but I suspect that you will continue to make a complete fool of yourself for as long as I keep responding.

You believe, I suppose that I am destined to burn in hell. So be it. You're pumping a dry well in your attempt to convert me to your line of thinking. or adopting your version of Biblical beliefs.

Give up the ghost. You're only getting creepier with every post.

February 3, 2013 at 7:15 p.m.
canarysong said...

"Bible and prayer was taken out of school in the early sixties. Graduation rates were higher then. Schools were much safer then. There was little crime in school then. . .You are once again 100% wrong. Your atheism is astonishing."

Your inability to properly research information or to understand causal relationships is "astonishing". Ikeithlu was exactly right. Facts don't cease to be true just because you don't like them. U.S. graduation rates started to rise significantly in the 1920's, continued through the 40's and 50's, AND through the middle and late 60's, peaking in 1969 at 77% nationally. Afterward they began slipping, but have recently picked up, reaching 78.2% (high school freshman that graduate within 4 years) in 2010.

Show me empirical evidence that there is a causal relationship between religion in public schools and violence and/or graduation rates if you can. Remember, correlation does NOT prove causation. If you can't, your argument is worth nothing. You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

February 3, 2013 at 7:26 p.m.
conservative said...

Ike:

You asked "Which god should we fear?"

Answer - Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name. Deuteromony 6:13

For the Lord is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods. For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the Lord made the heavens. Psalm 96:4-5

There is only one true God Ike. There is only one true God to fear Ike. I must say that I am surprised that sometime in your life that had not been made known to you.

Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Deuteronomy32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

2 Samuel 7:22 — Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

1 Kings 8:60 — That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

2 Kings 19:15 — And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.

Nehemiah 9:6 — Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee

Isaiah44:6,8 — Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Now regarding your "Drop out rates are down, more kids are graduating on time." "Schools are safer than ever. Crime in schools has fallen too"

Not after the sixties which I earlier referred to

YOUR DREAMING.

Now regarding your "AND the data disproves your notion that not teaching about Jesus is causing school drop-outs, violence or failure to graduate"

I have stated no such "notion" about the "causing school drop-outs, violence or failure to graduate"

POOR TRY.

February 3, 2013 at 10:15 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova;

MTJohn, says he is a "liberal Christian."

Do you profess to be a Christian?

February 3, 2013 at 10:19 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Conservative is truly a sanctimonious moron. There is no other way to put it.

February 3, 2013 at 10:25 p.m.
patriot1 said...

No matter the toon seems like every subject lately digresses to this.

February 3, 2013 at 11:17 p.m.
canarysong said...

You can't read, can you, conservative? The graduation rate now is higher than it was in the early sixties. Give it up. It's obvious that you didn't read the link that she posted. It's based on the latest federal report; where did you get your "information"?

Seriously, what is your problem with simply accepting that you're wrong about this? Geesh!

February 3, 2013 at 11:17 p.m.
patriot1 said...

Skeeter doing his thing with his shotgun....the White House has warned it had better not be photoshopped.

http://masermedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/gum-two.jpg

February 3, 2013 at 11:22 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote: "alprova; MTJohn, says he is a "liberal Christian." Do you profess to be a Christian?"

Not according to your commandments and the criteria that you have created out of thin air.

My relationship with God and his Son is between the three of us and not open to criticism by the likes of you.

Now...unless you have some verifiable proof that God commands us to include religious instruction in public schools, buzz off.

February 3, 2013 at 11:30 p.m.
Maximus said...

Jesus, most of our founding Fathers, Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Billy Graham and even Dale Earnhart may not be as well schooled on the dark internet crap as the Canary, DaytonsDarwin, or Alprova, but they all believed in God and that is good enough for me. In fact Alprova is one of the sole reasons why food stamps exist and DaytonsDarwin just because you have a fresh GED does not mean you have to prove it to the world. Ya'll must hate your loose change because you have to carry around IN GOD WE TRUST ALL DAY LONG! As for our schools and this has been the case for many years....TAKE YOUR KIDS OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS IMMEDIATELY EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO WORK TWO JOBS. KIDS EDUCATED IN PRIVATE, CATHOLIC, OR CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS ARE MILES AHEAD OF ANY KID EDUCATED IN THE PUBLIC SYSTEM.

February 3, 2013 at 11:32 p.m.
alprova said...

patriot1 wrote: "Skeeter doing his thing with his shotgun....the White House has warned it had better not be photoshopped."

Too late. I've seen several photo-shopped variations already on Facebook. I can't link to them, for they are not in good taste.

Some people simply have too much time on their hands.

February 3, 2013 at 11:35 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Maximusty,

Who needs intelligence when you can be delusional, right, Maximusty? Who needs a fake Vanderbilt education as long as you read the Bible, correct? LMFAO! You're a joke.

February 3, 2013 at 11:37 p.m.
fairmon said...

What does all the debate about religion have to do with McCain? It seems abortion, religion and guns are the only topics that can generate interest.

The economy and lack of jobs are killing the country with one side insisting on confiscation from a few to feed the many and the other side insisting on less spending. I wonder why I should get all concerned about an able bodied individual being hungry and doing without. I would like to see the governments qualify charities and allow a "tax reduction" of up to 25% of taxes owed for contributions to those qualified charities enabling a major reduction in the government hierarchy of over paid under worked employees. Value per dollar spent is not government measured or accomplished.

February 3, 2013 at 11:42 p.m.
alprova said...

maximus wrote: "In fact Alprova is one of the sole reasons why food stamps exist"

I'd sure love to read an explanation of that statement. What do I have to do with food stamps? I've never in my life received them. I've never in my life worked for any agency that issues them.

I have nothing at all to do with food stamps.

"TAKE YOUR KIDS OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS IMMEDIATELY EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO WORK TWO JOBS. KIDS EDUCATED IN PRIVATE, CATHOLIC, OR CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS ARE MILES AHEAD OF ANY KID EDUCATED IN THE PUBLIC SYSTEM."

That's strictly a matter of opinion and you can't begin to back it up with proof that kids in such schools are "miles ahead" of anyone. The only thing religious schools do is to spit out more and more maladjusted people each year.

Aren't you the Bozo who claims that you received a Vanderbilt education, who has trouble constructing a cognitive paragraph, routinely?

It really would be a hoot to learn where you did indeed receive your instruction on the finer points in how to offer pathological fairy tales.

February 3, 2013 at 11:59 p.m.
fairmon said...

Living as an example is more effective than talking about it. Am I not a christian if it doesn't bother me to see those that can but will not help themselves suffer? Why should the death of someone with an illness caused by their stupid life style choices bother me? Why should the difficulties of someone refusing to utilize the education opportunities they had be of concern to me? It is hard enough to provide for the elderly, the young and the disabled through no fault of their own without a drain of resources by those irresponsible. Call it callous, cold, cruel, unchristian or any label you choose, it is reality and the way I think about it.

February 4, 2013 at 6 a.m.
fairmon said...

McCain and others don't hesitate to involve the U.S. in every skirmish in the world but come up short in veteran care. Veterans need and deserve assistance transitioning back to civilian life plus assistance in securing a good job. Those wounded or suffering an illness deserve and should be provided the best of care and long term support. We provide better for some gal popping out kids like a pez machine to increase their welfare income than the help provided for some veterans.

February 4, 2013 at 6:13 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova:

Do you profess to be a Christian?

"Not according to your commandments and the criteria that you have created out of thin air." "My relationship with God and his Son is between the three of us and not open to criticism by the likes of you."

alprova:

Do you profess to be a Christian?

February 4, 2013 at 7:47 a.m.
Rebus said...

conservative: ALPO professes to go the way the wind blows. Down deep, he has a slight right center bent. But on the board, he loves to side with the prevailing doofuses...easy, backwater, dude_ rickyroo, noogs...those types. He perceives them to be in the majority here, so that's the way he rolls. Hypocritical you ask? Of course. And he's damned sure old enough to know better.

February 4, 2013 at 8:14 a.m.
BigRidgePatriot said...

acerigger said... "BigRidgePatriot,is that really you @ 11:52? Somehow,I've had the impression in the past that you were one of those "America,love it or leave it" ideologues."

I suppose your impression comes from the two party system that tries to lump us into groups of voting constituents designed to divide and create conflict. I absolutely support the concepts of individual freedom and do not like Obama and what he is doing to this country. I guess that automatically leads people to expect that I like everything the republican party stands for. Not so. Both of the parties are hopelessly broken and more interested in power and relection than the Consititution.

February 4, 2013 at 8:26 a.m.
MTJohn said...

fairmon said...What does all the debate about religion have to do with McCain?

Fairmon - it has something to do with Conservative's bad habit of continuing the conversation regarding the previous cartoon in the next cartoon rather than having the courtesy to continue it in the thread where it is (or, at least, sometimes is) relevant.

February 4, 2013 at 8:28 a.m.
MTJohn said...

alprova said...maximus wrote: "In fact Alprova is one of the sole reasons why food stamps exist" I'd sure love to read an explanation of that statement. What do I have to do with food stamps? I've never in my life received them. I've never in my life worked for any agency that issues them.

Al - you and are responsible because we love our neighbors as ourselves.

February 4, 2013 at 8:30 a.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn:

Because you hit and run. You can run but you can't hide.

February 4, 2013 at 8:43 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Jack_Rebus_Dennis,

"he loves to side with the prevailing doofuses"

You have just described yourself in full. You always seem to find yourself siding with the likes of conservatives, joneses, JonRoss, tu_quoque and Maximus. Fools flock together, I guess.

"He perceives them to be in the majority here"

All of your friends seemed to have disappeared after the election results came out and a new cast of characters has come out of the woodwork with new "handles".

"Hypocritical you ask?"

Pot meet kettle. You're the biggest hypocrite here. You're the guy that accused everyone of having multiple "handles" and then created another "handle" the same week only to act like you weren't Jack_Dennis but failed miserably at keeping that secret.

And you're surely old enough to know better. You're old enough to know better a few times over, Jackie.

February 4, 2013 at 8:43 a.m.
Easy123 said...

"Because you hit and run. You can run but you can't hide."

Human beings can't get more delusional than Conservative.

February 4, 2013 at 8:46 a.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn:

"it has something to do with Conservative's bad habit of continuing the conversation regarding the previous cartoon in the next cartoon rather than having the courtesy to continue it in the thread where it is (or, at least, sometimes is) relevant."

You are being hypocritical again. You and Al and others often discuss matters irrelevant to the cartoon and matter at hand.

February 4, 2013 at 8:50 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Maximus said...

Jesus, most of our founding Fathers, Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Billy Graham and even Dale Earnhart may not be as well schooled on the dark internet crap as the Canary, DaytonsDarwin, or Alprova, but they all believed in God and that is good enough for me."

I bet Jehovah wears a black tee-shirt with "#3 The Intimidator" written on it. Jesus rides a Harley with a tattoo, "Born to Raise the Dead," and the Holy Ghost is into "50 Shades of Invisibility."

There's nothing like a Holy Trinity of Nascar fans to share their beer, broads, and dentures.

February 4, 2013 at 8:54 a.m.
jesse said...

A good indicator of intelligence or lack thereof is WHO tries to REASON w/con man,jonses and maximus!!

The reason they beat their head against a brick wall is cause it feels so good when they stop!!

February 4, 2013 at 8:55 a.m.
Rebus said...

easy: you know the reason for the handle change. thus your statement is fallacious. Further, I never denied who I was. never.

I haven't noticed the disappearance of anyone.

This forum would be better served with more adult participation. That would exclude you, toddler.

Besides, little man, ALPO is perfectly capable of defending himself. Doubt he needs you unless he gets a justin beiber question.

February 4, 2013 at 8:55 a.m.
alprova said...

Rebus wrote: "conservative: ALPO professes to go the way the wind blows."

Not that you have the first clue, whatever the case may be, it's far better than what you blow.

"Down deep, he has a slight right center bent."

Ahhh...you're a crotch watcher too. Creepy.

February 4, 2013 at 8:56 a.m.
alprova said...

MTJohn wrote: ":Al - you and are responsible because we love our neighbors as ourselves."

Ah...I get it now. It's a shame that some people think this is a bad thing.

February 4, 2013 at 8:59 a.m.
conservative said...

MTJohn:

"Al - you and are responsible because we love our neighbors as ourselves"

Oh really?

Now you are being self righteous and conferring self righteousness on another.

You might want to pat each other on the back for surely that is the only reward you two will get for your self righteousness.

February 4, 2013 at 9:02 a.m.
Rebus said...

ALPO becoming more easy-like as we speak. What's next, ALPO, zits?

February 4, 2013 at 9:02 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova:

Do you profess to be a Christian?

"Not according to your commandments and the criteria that you have created out of thin air."

"My relationship with God and his Son is between the three of us and not open to criticism by the likes of you."

alprova:

Do you profess to be a Christian?

February 4, 2013 at 9:05 a.m.
Easy123 said...

Jack_Rebus_Dennis,

"you know the reason for the handle change. thus your statement is fallacious."

That doesn't make my statement fallacious. You did the exact thing you accused everyone else of doing. That makes you a hypocrite.

"Further, I never denied who I was. never."

I never said you denied it. However, you never addressed everyone that asked if you were Jack_Dennis and you even tried to use a different, Tarzan-esc posting style. You didn't want anyone to know who you were and that was very obvious. Denying it only makes you look worse.

"I haven't noticed the disappearance of anyone."

They haven't left, they just have new handles.

"This forum would be better served with more adult participation. That would exclude you, toddler."

Everyone that posts here is an adult and it wouldn't exclude me. I'm just the bane of your existence here.

"Besides, little man, ALPO is perfectly capable of defending himself."

I didn't defend alprova. I pointed out your own hypocrisy, moron.

"Doubt he needs you unless he gets a justin beiber question."

He could always come to you with a question about an enlarged prostate or erectile dysfunction.

February 4, 2013 at 9:05 a.m.
alprova said...

conservative wrote "alprova: Do you profess to be a Christian?"

When you cough up the Biblical proof that we are commanded by God to have religious instruction in public schools, I'll be happy to answer any questions you have on your mind.

February 4, 2013 at 9:09 a.m.
delmar said...

Heheheh, it really is quite hilarious how one person can consistently hijack a discussion to the same old topic and everybody just keeps trying to convince this poster/troll to change his/her (poster/troll) mind. Is it really that hard to just ignore the posts and keep on topic? It did start out as an interesting debate but quickly digressed. Not even sure why I'm going to hit the -post comment- button, but here goes.

February 4, 2013 at 9:12 a.m.
Easy123 said...

delmar,

That's not uncommon for cartoons that stay up for more than a day.

February 4, 2013 at 9:15 a.m.
alprova said...

Rebus wrote: "ALPO becoming more easy-like as we speak. What's next, ALPO, zits?"

That's all up to you. You like being the center of attention. You can't stand it if you are ignored for more than a day.

Quit being a troll and offering demeaning comments and people will stop retorting back.

But that's not gonna happen, is it?

February 4, 2013 at 9:17 a.m.
alprova said...

Delmar and everyone else who has lamented the twists and turns that occur in here, you all know that conversations take on a life of their own in here and everyone is guilty of taking things off-track now and then.

There is nothing written in the terms of use that declares that topics discussed in here must stay on topic.

February 4, 2013 at 9:22 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

I imagine Conservative as a participant in the Spanish Inquisition torturing for his loving god. A few years later Conservative would have been examining naked women looking for witch's marks, pronouncing them evil, and smashing their bodies on the rack.

Then, as a good Christian, he'd be putting Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, and homosexuals in concentration camps proudly leading them to gas chambers and crematoriums.

Conservative and his fellow true believers, scalawags, and psychopaths always have a holy reason and are never happy if anyone else is happy.

In the 1994 movie "Tombstone" Earp asks Doc Holliday a question.

Earp: What makes a man like Ringo, doc? What makes him do the things he does?

Doc: A man like Ringo has got a great big hole, right in the middle of him. He can never kill enough, or steal enough, or inflict enough pain to ever fill it.

Earp: What does he need?

Doc: Revenge.

Earp: For what?

Doc: Bein' born.

This is Conservative — a miserable man who seeks revenge for being born.

February 4, 2013 at 9:23 a.m.
conservative said...

alprova:

Do you profess to be a Christian?

"Not according to your commandments and the criteria that you have created out of thin air."

"My relationship with God and his Son is between the three of us and not open to criticism by the likes of you."

alprova:

Do you profess to be a Christian?

February 4, 2013 at 9:25 a.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Jesus Christ wouldn't be a Christian.

February 4, 2013 at 10:14 a.m.
Rebus said...

Strange response, ALPO, from a guy that posts millions* of words here. Who's the attention getter?

February 4, 2013 at 1:05 p.m.
canarysong said...

Maximus: "Jesus, most of our founding Fathers, Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Billy Graham and even Dale Earnhart may not be as well schooled on the dark internet crap as the Canary, DaytonsDarwin, or Alprova, but they all believed in God..."

Dark internet crap? Basing our comments on actual facts (otherwise known as reality) gleaned from actual reading of such online sources as, say, federal reports on demographics; scientific studies from various universities; respected publications such as The Washington Post; those subversive things called dictionaries {eye roll}; and those heavy, page-turny things called "books" somehow is dark? Wow, you have a very scary little world inside your head, don't you?

Seriously, I don't don't know whether to laugh my head off at that or to cry. After my initial fit of giggles, I realize the very sad implication of the fact that you don't seem to be an outlier. Somehow, in today's religious right wing, ignorance has come to be preferred and more trusted than knowledge. Educated has come to mean "elitist"; opinion has the same weight as "fact"; and fantasy is on equal footing with reality. Sad. Not only sad, but it's costing us our competitive footing in the global marketplace. In science and math, our students rank 25th out of 34 countries surveyed in a recent Harvard study (dang that "dark internet"!). We're becoming an economy more based on low paying, unskilled service jobs than on cutting edge technology (those jobs are going to Asia and Europe, where education and intelligence is valued). The reality is that teaching any children myth as scientific fact; creating a culture where intellect is viewed with suspicion, or even ridiculed; where celebrity is more rewarded than expertise; where taxpayer funds are diverted to schools who twist reality to fit their ideology; where teachers aren't given the pay, bargaining power, support, and respect that they need and deserve - these things harm us all. We are on a fast track to becoming a "third world country" and it's because we're not investing in what matters (health, education, diplomacy, and yes, environmental protection). This type of backward attitude is both the symptom and the cause.

Btw, Maximus, you'd better get off this dark interwebby thing, I'm told that good god-believing Christians can be corrupted just by turning it on. Besides, most of the technology that you're using was developed by atheists and some of them were (gasp!) gay!

February 4, 2013 at 1:26 p.m.
canarysong said...

Seriously, I think that all of you on the religious right that have such a problem with secularity should just boycott all of the technology that has been developed by nontheists. Go back to paper, pencils, snail-mail, and the public library (you know, the big building with the page-turny things in it); and if your heart gives out and you need a new one, just make do - that artificial one was invented by a heathen.

If you note a hint of irritation in the tone of non-believers, it's because we're sick to death of being marginalized, demonized, and excluded while all the while the rest of you are happy to take advantage of the contributions that some secularists have given you. And we're simply not willing to put up with it silently anymore! And if you think us strident.... most of us don't really care.

February 4, 2013 at 1:47 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

Do you profess to be a Christian?

"Not according to your commandments and the criteria that you have created out of thin air."

"My relationship with God and his Son is between the three of us and not open to criticism by the likes of you."

alprova:

Do you profess to be a Christian?

February 4, 2013 at 1:49 p.m.
Maximus said...

Canarynerd....The Washington Post, federal reports.haha...you are just another predictable drone, so over educated (Chatt State) that you are unemployable, so smaaaaaaaaaaaart you can't earn a pay check in the evil private sector, and so smmmmmmmmmmmmaaaart you don't believe in God. And Alprova, I guess since Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Hillary and Bill Clinton and even Beyonce are such dumb asses because they believe or believed in God that makes you oh great one the smartest damn tool in the tool box. Darwin, Canary, and Alprova believing in a higher power, especially God and Jesus requires humility. I feel sorry for each of you because you do not have the peace that comes with such humility. And mark my word, if your higher power is intellect and government wrapped in secular humanism you are taking your life and the lives of those who care about you down the road to self destruction. If you have no morale compass you are a lost soul with no where to go but down. So very sad but you always have the federal authorities and the Washington Post. Canary, I'm surprised you did not include Paul Kruger and the New York Times. So very refined.

February 4, 2013 at 2:06 p.m.
Maximus said...

Canary..."If you think us strident........." YOU WATCH WAY TOO MUCH DOWNTON ABBEY. Nontheists? Is that like the gays, a new special interest group soon to be lobbying for special rights. Give Axelrod a call and they will come up with some nontheist messaging to herd you like cattle to the Dummycrat voting booth. It has worked with the blacks, young women including latinas, and algores followers. I can hear it now....there are nontheists crying in the wilderness and attending renaissance festivals in silence....OH THE HUMANITY!

February 4, 2013 at 2:17 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Maximusty,

What is a morale compass exactly? Is that a compass that gives you encouragement when you're lost? LMFAO! Vanderbilt my ass! You truly can't keep your ignorance off these threads. It spews from your fingers and onto the screen.

February 4, 2013 at 2:17 p.m.
Maximus said...

Easy you really are irritated at my Vandy MBA. Very funny.

February 4, 2013 at 2:24 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Maximusty,

The folks at Vanderbilt would be irritated if they knew someone as patently ignorant as you was falsely claiming to be an alumnus. Very sad, yet highly comical. At least, learn how to spell and type a cogent sentence before you start making outrageous claims about your "education". LMFAO!

February 4, 2013 at 2:29 p.m.
alprova said...

Chrino wrote: "Do you profess to be a Christian?"

Quid Pro Quo Clarice...

Where does the Bible proclaim and command us that religious instruction is to be part of the curriculum in public schools?

February 4, 2013 at 2:42 p.m.
caddy said...

Alprova,

Nowhere does Scripture say that to know all is to forgive all. Rather it says that on the Day of Wrath, everything secret will be known and everything in darkness will come to light. Nevertheless, Christians get pulled into absolutionism by all sorts of ropes. Ours is a God of mercy. Yes, but He is also a God of judgment. These two qualities are united by the atoning sacrifice of Christ, of which we cannot avail ourselves unless we repent. Christ has commanded us not to judge. Yes, but we are not commanded not to judge acts; we are only commanded not to judge souls. We know which acts are wrong because He has told us; we don't know which souls will repent because He hasn't.

I think Psalms 2 is pretty explicit.

http://www.esvbible.org/Psalm+2/

We either "Kiss the Son" here and now or we WILL be judged by the Son for the deeds done in the body when this life is over.

February 4, 2013 at 3:07 p.m.
alprova said...

Mr. Pathological Liar wrote: "And Alprova, I guess since Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Hillary and Bill Clinton and even Beyonce are such dumb asses because they believe or believed in God that makes you oh great one the smartest damn tool in the tool box."

I challenge you to find and post any sentence that has ever been posted by myself, calling anyone who believes in God, "dumb asses" or any similar connotation.

I have never...ever...demeaned so much as one soul who has posted their belief in God. I have, and still do, question one or two people's claims to be true Christians, for they are woefully misled in their beliefs.

For some reason, there are a couple of people who believe that to be a Christian, all they have to do is to take a knee, confess their sins, accept Jesus Christ as their Savior, and no matter what's in their hearts after that point, they are guaranteed a slot in Heaven.

They think they can disregard the poor. They think they can bear false witness. They think they can be closet racists and bigots. They think they can be scathing hypocrites in their interaction with others on this board.

Once Saved, always saved is their philosophy.

There is more to Christianity than merely proclaiming a belief that Jesus died for our sins. True Christians do not have to announce or proclaim their religious beliefs.

They do their level best to emulate Jesus 24/7/365.

February 4, 2013 at 3:07 p.m.
caddy said...
The Choice presented by Paul is between telling the truth in

an age when people do not want to hear it, or telling them myths that will make them happy and you popular. The world needs to hear the raw, undiluted truth of God's Word. What are some of the popular "myths" today that unbelievers want to hear?

1.  They are "divine" in some way

2.  They possess a good "human nature."

3.  No one can judge them, not even God.

4.  They have within themselves all they need for their own  
    truth and morals.

5.  They have an absolute free will that even God cannot 
    violate.

6.  They are autonomous, i.e. independent of God and the Bible.

7.  Their reason, experience, feelings and faith are 
    sufficient for all things.

8.  Man is the Origin of truth, justice, morals, meaning, and 
    beauty.

9.  Man is the measure of all things, including God.

10 Natural Law, Religion, Theology, and Apologetics.

11. They can be whatever they want to be.

12. They can do whatever they want to do.

13. They can know whatever they want to know.

14. They have infinite potential.

15. Ignorance is the problem and knowledge is the cure.

16. There is a secret of living the good life, and if they 
    find it, they will be healthy and wealthy.

17. They need a good self - image.

18. We are all OK.

19. God is all Love.

20. There is no day of Judgment.

21. There is no hell to fear.

22. All people are good deep down.

23. There is no such thing as sin.

24. There are many ways to heaven.

25. Everyone will end up in heaven.

26. The heathen are not lost.
February 4, 2013 at 3:09 p.m.
caddy said...

These myths represent the core of what is preached today in most mega-churches. They offer a smorgasbord of self-help psychobabble sermons that uplift and affirm people in their sin. The cross is not preached. Sin is not mentioned. Health and wealth are the promised blessings of salvation. Heaven is here and now and there is no Hell to fear.This is why Natural Law, Natural Religion, Natural Theology, and Natural Apologetics are humanistic in nature and come by pagan philosophers. They do not come from Divine Revelation and are often in direct contradiction to it.

February 4, 2013 at 3:12 p.m.
conservative said...

caddy,

I agree and I applaud your list because it is the truth.

You may have noticed at least a couple here think they are Christians all the while denying that with there words of hate toward the things of God.

One even constantly claims we don't have the word of God!

February 4, 2013 at 3:23 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova:

Do you profess to be a Christian?

"Not according to your commandments and the criteria that you have created out of thin air."

"My relationship with God and his Son is between the three of us and not open to criticism by the likes of you."

alprova:

Do you profess to be a Christian?

February 4, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Deluded folks flock together. They need each other to reinforce their own beliefs.

February 4, 2013 at 3:28 p.m.
canarysong said...

Maximus-

"so over educated (Chatt State) that you are unemployable"

I assume "Chatt State" is the local college? ....No. And I own my own business.

""If you think us strident....."YOU WATCH WAY TOO MUCH DOWNTON[sic] ABBEY."

I hate to disappoint you, but I've never watched "Downtown Abbey". PBS British series? If I watched TV, I might. Sorry (not really) that the way I express myself puts you off. English is my second language. Would you be more comfortable if I threw in a couple of "y'all"s and "ain't"s now and then?

"I'm surprised you did not include Paul Kruger and the New York Times..."

Paul Krueger, Pulitzer Prize (that elitist thing) winning economist? Yes, I do read him, and The New York Times, as anyone who wants a broad view on our world, liberal or conservative, would do. I also sometimes read The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, and other more conservative sources for news.

"Nontheists? Is that like the gays, a new special interest group..."

Nontheists - the most inclusive term that I can use. Not everyone who doesn't believe in god(s) is an atheist; some are agnostics, Taoists, Buddhists, Jains, Wiccans, etc. Yes, I know.... "inclusive" is another one of those dirty words to the far right.

"Special interest group"? No more so than anyone else, including whatever you claim to be. Christian fundamentalists have certainly done a bang-up job of promoting their "special interests" in the past few decades.

"...believing in a higher power, especially God and Jesus requires humility. I feel sorry for each of you because you do not have the peace that comes with such humility."

LOL.... First of all, while I don't think that someone is stupid because they believe in god(s), for me, it requires a suspension of disbelief, a lack of need for evidence that I simply can't muster. I could make life easier for myself and simply pretend to believe, but that isn't really faith, is it? I see those who arrogantly claim to know, with absolute certainty, "the truth" to be the ones lacking in humility. When I look a the vastness of our universe; the complexity and beauty of our natural world; the capacity for compassion, creativity, and innovation in human heart and mind, I feel awe; I feel wonder..... I feel "humility". I don't know.... and I'm fine with that.

As for "peace", I don't see any evidence of it in your posts.

"If you have no morale [sic] compass you are a lost soul with no where to go but down."

I believe you meant "moral". Yes..... that "demonizing" nontheists thing I was talking about. I'm sure that's why I was nominated for a public service award a few years ago.... my lack of a moral compass.

"...Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Hillary and Bill Clinton and even Beyonce are such dumb asses because they believe or believed in God..."

Beyonce? Oh well, why didn't you say so? Sign me up! Where's the nearest river? rofl...

February 4, 2013 at 3:30 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

Prove your god exists. If you have faith, that's not proof. If you have proof there's no need of faith.

There is no Jehovah, no deity ever espoused exists. If you've got proof, let's see it.

Quoting a defective book of fiction, an assembled collection of myths, proves nothing.

Got God? Let's see him/her/he/she/it. I judge the bible god as a paranoid and murderous, an unworthy creation, not a master of his domain, nor divine, nor anything but a mythological creation like Zeus, Apollo, and Satan.

You may trust in god, but like the Easter Bunny and Pink Unicorn, there's nobody there.

February 4, 2013 at 3:31 p.m.
alprova said...

caddy, was there some point in all that you wrote?

Go back and read what is written in that passage of scripture you quoted. The words contained therein are clearly directed at "Kings" and "Rulers" of the Earth who "take council against the Lord."

There's nothing in those verses of scripture that give me any reason to fear God's wrath upon myself. I am not a King or a ruler.

Context is everything, especially when it comes to scripture.

Cherry-picking scripture, outside of the context it is presented, can and is used on a daily basis by people to distort that which is written.

I do not fear the Lord and nobody is ever going to convince me to fear God's "wrath." I'm sure that I will have lots to answer for, when I pass on from this life, but then so will everyone else, including those who believe that they have a total grip on God.

February 4, 2013 at 3:33 p.m.
caddy said...

Context Is everything. So, you are safe, because what God requires of His kings & rulers, He does not require of His people. Got it.

February 4, 2013 at 3:40 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova:

"I do not fear the Lord and nobody is ever going to convince me to fear God's "wrath." "

You convinced me long ago. You might do some rethinking on that.

Proverbs 1:7 KJV The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction

February 4, 2013 at 3:58 p.m.
alprova said...

Chrino wrote: "One even constantly claims we don't have the word of God!"

I'm hardly alone in the knowledge that the Bible has be radically altered, misinterpreted, and mistranslated many times throughout history.

You are free as a bird to put all your trust and faith into each and every word contained in the current Bible. That's completely your prerogative.

My wife has the same opinion because she was TAUGHT to believe it. She refuses to entertain any evidence to the contrary. I suppose you are the same.

Whenever I read scripture, I do so taking into consideration the context in which it is presented, in order to arrive at a logical conclusion whether or not it applies to someone like myself in today's world.

I'm merely guessing, but based on your prior arguments in here, I am led to believe that you take every single word literally and no matter the context in which any reference to a commandment, edict, or behavior resulting in God's wrath is presented, you believe that it applies to all...even those of us on Earth today.

Context is everything. Cherry-picked quotes are meaningless without context to weigh them for validity to our current lives.

Bible literacy courses taught me that years ago. I love the Bible. I love reading it. But I do so at all times with an open mind, and I do so at all times by understanding the context of everything I read.

I do not and never will hold the belief that the Bible is the word of God. You will not shame me into such a belief, no matter how many times you try.

The fact of the matter is that I care not one whit what you believe or do not believe. Your delusions and many of your beliefs will never become mine, nor will you ever infect me with them.

February 4, 2013 at 4:04 p.m.
canarysong said...

A correction to my last post: Paul Krugman won the Nobel Prize in economics, not the Pulitzer Prize. Memory isn't always a friend anymore....

February 4, 2013 at 4:06 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova:

"I do not fear the Lord and nobody is ever going to convince me to fear God's "wrath." "

You might do some rethinking on that

The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverse mouth I hate. Proverbs 8:13

February 4, 2013 at 4:36 p.m.
alprova said...

Chrino wrote: "You convinced me long ago. You might do some rethinking on that."

"Proverbs 1:7 KJV The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction"

1.) The word "fool" translated in ancient Hebrew means one who is morally deficient. I'm quite the moral person.

2.) I neither despise wisdom nor instruction, and acknowledge the existence of the Lord, therefore I have nothing to fear.

Proverbs attests to the fact that wisdom is a very good thing, that it is equally good and wise to constantly seek to improve one's knowledge, that it is very wise to resist the temptation to associate with those who are evil, and that it is a virtue to honor one's father and mother.

If you believe that the Proverbs is an instruction to fear God, knock yourself out. Cherry-picking scripture will lead to many misunderstandings of that which is written in the Bible.

I thank you very much for proving my stance very well.

`Would you care to tango some more?

February 4, 2013 at 4:50 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

"Blessed are the cheesemakers".—Life of Brian, Act 3

And Jesus spoke before the people. I have died for your sins. Someone raised their hand and Jesus pointed to them "if you died for my sins then how come you're standing here?" they said. Checkmate 3:16

And Jesus said onto his people, "Know me! Know me as you know your shadow!" And one of them inquired "What does that mean Jesus?" And the lord responded "I don't know man, I'm high right now, pass the chips." Mary Jane 4:20

"and Jesus warned "careful of the non believer, they use reason, logic and evidence. Also they don't give me money!" Reason 6:31

Just quoting my "Good Book."

February 4, 2013 at 5:02 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

"I do not fear the Lord and nobody is ever going to convince me to fear God's "wrath." "

You might do some rethinking on that.

Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13

February 4, 2013 at 5:07 p.m.
alprova said...

Chrino wrote: "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverse mouth I hate."

Scholars are all over the place about the author of Proverbs, but let's say for argument's sake, that the book was authored by Solomon, who was the son of David, the King of Israel.

The words in the above scripture are the words of Solomon. They are not the words of God, nor are they even close to a commandment, ordering us to fear God.

God, without question, deserves respect. I absolutely respect God, but I do not fear him.

Do you even begin to understand the difference?

February 4, 2013 at 5:12 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

"I do not fear the Lord and nobody is ever going to convince me to fear God's "wrath." "

You might rethink that.

Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that FEAR him. Psalm 103:13

February 4, 2013 at 5:17 p.m.
alprova said...

Chrino wrote: "Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. Ecclesiastes 12:13"

Ecclesiastes is presented as the autobiography of Koheleth, the Teacher, who is believed to have been Solomon.

What a coincidence!! I'm pleased that you offered this quote. The last sentence that you quote was added to the modern day Bible and did not appear in ancient Hebrew versions.

It is believed to have been added by a later Biblical editor who was disturbed by Koheleth's failure to offer any reference to the Ten Commandments.

February 4, 2013 at 5:34 p.m.
conservative said...

next alprova,

"I do not fear the Lord and nobody is ever going to convince me to fear God's "wrath." "

You might rethink that.

He will bless them that FEAR the Lord, both small and great.Psalm 113:15

February 4, 2013 at 5:41 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

"31. Upon approaching the Hill of Halubedahal-Shalamalamadingdong, Jesus the Lord bid His apostles to form a circle around Him. And there He did speak: 32. 'And now let those of true faith extendeth thine right leg to the center of our Circle of Spiritual Truth. Withdraw thine right leg, then return thine right leg to the Circle, and then shaketh it to and fro. Ye must do the Hokey Pokey, then turn thyself around. 33. Do this is remembrance of Me, my apostles, for this, I say to thee, is truly what it is all about.'" -St. Barney the Dinosaur 6:31-33.

He will bless thee that doth not believeth all of the excrement that doth falleth from his lips. (St. George of Carlin speaking to the Conservative on the Mount of Caca.) Snickers 3:16

February 4, 2013 at 5:55 p.m.
alprova said...

conservative, I will conclude with the following;

The word "fear" is described in the dictionary as "reverential awe" or the word "terror." This means there are two senses of the word "fear."

One is a feeling of being afraid or scared, and the other is a state of deep reverence and respect. When God is quoted as commanding his children to fear Him, the word is being used in the second sense.

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge....The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom..."

The scripture you quoted describes the proper understanding of true wisdom, which begins with reverence and respect for the God who created us and the world. So what does fearing God mean?

For certain, we should be afraid of what would happen if we disobey God, however, God's people do not obey Him just because they are afraid or scared of being punished.

They do so because they have an abiding reverence and respect for God.

"Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear." (Heb. 12.28)

You're free to fear God's wrath if you want to, and in fact I think you should entertain a certain amount of terrorizing fear of God, given your propensity to deny and disregard some rather direct commandments issued by his son, Jesus, but I have nothing to "fear," for I truly attempt live my life the way that I am commanded to do.

You are equally free to honor and abide by the words of men claiming to speak on behalf of God if that is your choice, but I will always work to discover the context of every single word contained in scriptural references, and will seek the knowledge necessary to determine where it came from, and who wrote it.

If you desire to view God as someone who is to be feared much like they would a terrorist, that's a-okay with me. I will never subscribe to any such belief myself.

February 4, 2013 at 6:11 p.m.
conservative said...

alprova,

"I do not fear the Lord and nobody is ever going to convince me to fear God's "wrath." "

You might rethink that.

28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the FEAR of the Lord:

30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. Proverbs 1:28-31

February 4, 2013 at 6:29 p.m.
Rebus said...

ALPO: Don't get too close to an open flame.

February 4, 2013 at 7:29 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Take your own advice, Jack_Rebus_Dennis. You're the Hindenburg of gasbags.

February 4, 2013 at 8:05 p.m.
alprova said...

Rebus: Don't get too close to a funeral home.

February 4, 2013 at 8:06 p.m.
Easy123 said...

Bwwwaaahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha! I don't care who you are, that's funny!

February 4, 2013 at 8:08 p.m.
alprova said...

tu_quoque wrote: "It doesn’t really matter what you have a problem with."

That is so true. I am a nobody with nothing more than an opinion, but you overlooked something in your Google research.

Schools ruled by the Supreme Court to be Constitutionally allowed to receive vouchers in districts that have approved them, MUST meet a five part test. Those five points are;

1.) The curriculum must have a valid secular purpose;

2.) Vouchers must go to parents and not to the schools;

3.) A broad class of students with varying backgrounds must be accepted by the school;

4.) The curriculum must be neutral with respect to religion, and;

5.) There must be adequate nonreligious options open to students.

Therefore, I am confident that the vast majority of religious schools are not going to benefit from vouchers any time soon...if ever, unless they amend their curriculum accordingly.

Nice try though...

February 4, 2013 at 8:33 p.m.
alprova said...

Conservative, how's it coming with your digging up the definitive Biblical scripture reference that commands us to love the Lord and to be a good neighbor by providing religious instruction to every child enrolled in our public schools?

Didn't you accuse MTJohn of attempting to run and hide?

You run for cover every single time you are cornered. Every time.

What are you afraid of? The truth that there is no such commandment? This is just yet another example of how wrong people can be when they attempt to represent God.

I hate to point out the obvious, but it's no wonder to me why you fear the wrath of God.

February 4, 2013 at 9:04 p.m.
alprova said...

I missed this earlier...

caddy wrote: "Context Is everything. So, you are safe, because what God requires of His kings & rulers, He does not require of His people. Got it."

What? Is it not important to you to discover EXACTLY who is being addressed in a scriptural reference, who wrote the words, and whether or not the words are merely opinion, edict, or a relevant commandment to those alive today?

Context is everything indeed. The Bible is no different.

And for the record, I MOST CERTAINLY DO happen to believe that God holds Kings and rulers accountable more than he does underlings.

Do you think that God would hold accountable a pilot for carrying out a direct order to drop a bomb that destroys a town and a great portion of its inhabitants, or the commander who ordered him to do it?

Do you think God would be just as harsh on the ground troops who engage in battle or the President who ordered them to go there?

Context is everything and it always will be.

February 4, 2013 at 9:23 p.m.
GratefulDawg said...

"'Blessed are the cheesemakers". --daytonsdarwin"

"Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products."

On a slightly unrelated note: Could someone please douse connie with holy water and put a piece of sacramental bread under his tounge. His messianic complex has flared up to hell wouldn't have it.

February 4, 2013 at 10:12 p.m.
caddy said...

I would not disagree that rulers & kings are especially and extra-ordinarily accountable to God. I tremble to think of our present ruler. Would that he would tremble.

February 4, 2013 at 10:41 p.m.
MTJohn said...

alprova said...Didn't you accuse MTJohn of attempting to run and hide?

I'm not running and hiding. I'm just ignoring Conservative. I have told him more than once that I refuse to participate in his game of hijacking one thread with a conversation that appropriately belongs in a previous thread. I encourage you and others to do likewise.

February 4, 2013 at 10:58 p.m.
GameOn said...

A confidential Justice Department memo concludes that the U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens if they are believed to be “senior operational leaders” of al-Qaida or “an associated force” -- even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S.

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/04/16843014-exclusive-justice-department-memo-reveals-legal-case-for-drone-strikes-on-americans?lite

February 4, 2013 at 10:59 p.m.
caddy said...

Conservative's question to some here is valid.

I like what the Old Puritan William Gurnall wrote in his massive book, "The Christian in Complete Armor."

"It is a harder thing to believe than to keep the ten commandments. When once you come to know what it is to believe, you will say, Oh, it is a harder thing to believe than to do any thing; I do not know any thing in all the world that is so hard as to believe." William Bridge, "A Lifting Up for the Downcast."

Ephesians 2 tells us very simply, "Faith is a gift." If it is earned, deserved, come to by reason, we can boast in it. Ephesians 2, however, tells us we can boast in NOTHING.

It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might have gone wrong. G.K.Chesterton.

John Calvin's thought was simply: "Our wisdom, insofar as it ought to be deemed true and solid wisdom, consists almost entirely of two parts: the knowledge of God and of ourselves.

People can't know God without His aide ( Ephesians 2 ). When He gives it, people understand how far they are from Him, understand their own depravity, and that of the world. Truth won't come until God gives that light. No man deserves it. Every man deserves death and hell and every man is on equal footing from the beginning. Only God can help us see and understand that we stand in need of both Mercy & Grace. There is no Mercy to the man who does not see the need. The need will never be known, felt unless God is Merciful. Hence: Salvation is ALL of Grace. Even the faith God asks us to have can only be produced from above.

February 4, 2013 at 11 p.m.
daytonsdarwin said...

A god that creates only to condemn his creation is not a god worthy of worship. That creator is the evil in the world, and those that worship such a damnable creator are fools and willing slaves to their own contemptible, debased lives.

February 4, 2013 at 11:12 p.m.
Easy123 said...

sTUpid,

"As long as no government funds are used to directly support that specific function they can pray and shout all they like."

You forgot the part about those programs being away from the school campus and are limited to one hour per week. Those programs have nothing to do with the school itself. It also has absolutely nothing to do with what Alprova is saying but whatever works for you as long as you feel like you're getting over on someone, right?

You can look it up if you want to. Or you can keep being ignorant or dishonest. Weak try on your part. Try reading all the words next time. LMFAO!

February 4, 2013 at 11:15 p.m.
GameOn said...

daytonsdarwin... What did you want the Genie Jesus? You asked for three wishes at some point in your life and received none? Is that why you are so bitter?

A god that creates to condemn? Where did you get that from?

February 4, 2013 at 11:22 p.m.
Easy123 said...

GameOn,

"What did you want the Genie Jesus? You asked for three wishes at some point in your life and received none?"

Matthew 7:7 (ESV):

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you."

You're supposed to get a lot more than 3 wishes with Jesus.

"A god that creates to condemn? Where did you get that from?"

Have you read the Bible?

February 4, 2013 at 11:31 p.m.
Easy123 said...

sTUpid,

"B.S. on the 1 hour limit as the release times can come at the end of the official school day and the school facility is private and not government owned."

This exact wording is: "Generally one hour is set aside for the purpose..." and the "release time" refers to time during school hours.

Try again. You're 0 for 2. LMFAO!

"That being a fact they can conduct whatever activities they want whenever they want as long as they don't fund them with government funds."

But these activities must takes place away from the school campus.

"The parents that want their children to have religious instruction will do so and you can't do anything about it."

Not in public school, sweetheart.

You're a dense old broad! LMFAO!

February 4, 2013 at 11:39 p.m.
GameOn said...

Easy said... Have you read the bible? Enough to know that God did not create with the sole purpose to condemn. Condemnation is your choice.

Matthew 7:7 (ESV):“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you." The verse has nothing to do with wishes. If you seek out God, he will reveal himself to you. You wanted the Genie Jesus too.

February 4, 2013 at 11:46 p.m.
Easy123 said...

GameOn,

"Enough to know that God did not create with the sole purpose to condemn. Condemnation is your choice."

Therefore, you're admitting condemnation is the default setting. Thus, you have disproven your own point.

February 4, 2013 at 11:49 p.m.
GameOn said...

Easy.... So you claim to possess all of the knowledge in the universe?

February 4, 2013 at 11:51 p.m.
Easy123 said...

sTUpid,

"I stated that his opinion didn't matter and pointed out the legal justification for my claim."

No, you didn't. You posted several irrelevant cases that had nothing to do with tax payer dollars going to fund religious instruction in public schools.

"AlBaby realizing his error then took a different tack to claim that few of those schools would benefit from the vouchers due to government requirements on the official curriculum."

Wrong again. Those schools CANNOT benefit from any vouchers because their curriculum is incapable of being altered to fit the criteria it would take to receive any voucher. If they did change their curriculum to meet the requirements, they would cease being a religious school at all.

"I then pointed out the legal reasoning for getting around those restrictions and about that time your loony ass showed up with you typical lack of comprehension of the details of the debate."

You pointed out no such thing. Your legal reasoning was proven to be incorrect by myself. You have very little clue what you're even talking about at this point.

"But it was instructive as how you exposed you ignorant self ... You really should read all of the posts before you jump in over your head."

I exposed you, sweetheart. You really should learn what you're talking about and actually read your so-called "legal reasoning" before you continue to look like a moron.

LMFAO!

February 4, 2013 at 11:55 p.m.
Easy123 said...

sTUpid,

"Do you actually know the definition of "Generally" and why didn't you show how many days a week it applies to?"

"Only one hour a week is to be allowed for such training"

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0343_0306_ZO.html

I just did. LMFAO! Do you want to keep going?

February 4, 2013 at 11:58 p.m.
Easy123 said...

GameOn,

"So you claim to possess all of the knowledge in the universe?"

Show me where I even hinted at that.

February 5, 2013 at midnight
GameOn said...

To claim God does not exist. Is to claim all of the knowledge of the universe. You know everything. So God cannot exist.

February 5, 2013 at 12:03 a.m.
Easy123 said...

GameOn,

"To claim God does not exist. Is to claim all of the knowledge of the universe."

No, it is not. To claim the Christian god doesn't exist only takes a quick study of your Bible and a general knowledge of science, more specifically evolution, physics, geology, and chemistry.

"You know everything. So God cannot exist."

Do you know what a non sequitur is? I never claimed to know everything but one does not have to know everything to disprove your god.

February 5, 2013 at 12:05 a.m.
GameOn said...

Is it possible that God exists outside of your realm of knowledge and you don't have knowledge of his existence at this point in your life?

February 5, 2013 at 12:09 a.m.
Easy123 said...

GameOn,

You'd have to define "God' first. But if you're referring to the Christian god then absolutely not.

February 5, 2013 at 12:12 a.m.
GameOn said...

So Easy... You claim to know all the knowledge of the universe?

February 5, 2013 at 12:14 a.m.
Easy123 said...

sTUpid,

"Who mentioned funding religious instruction in public schools … Not me ..You Moron… LMFaO !!"

Alprova, moron. LMFAO! That's what Alprova was talking about the whole time. If you weren't talking about that then you weren't debating Alprova.

"They don’t have to alter the curriculum"

Yes, they do. Refer to Alprova's post at 8:33 p.m.

"as all religious instruction can be conducted during the “Release Time” and the facilities are privately owned so they don’t have to conduct the religious instruction off campus."

False. Learn to read.

"And that is the real funny part … You claim to be studying the law … Now that is truly some funny sh!t right there"

LMFAO! And you're getting schooled!

"If true I see many malpractice lawsuits being filed against you in the future."

Bask in your ignorance! LMFAO!

February 5, 2013 at 12:15 a.m.
Easy123 said...

GameOn,

"So Easy... You claim to know all knowledge in the universe?"

I've already answered this question.

February 5, 2013 at 12:16 a.m.
GameOn said...

You obviously possess all of the knowledge in the universe. If you cannot admit God might exist, you are deceiving yourself. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I have to get to sleep. Some of us have to work for a living. Good night and God Bless.

February 5, 2013 at 12:26 a.m.
Easy123 said...

GameOn,

"You obviously possess all of the knowledge in the universe. If you cannot admit God might exist, you are deceiving yourself."

The Christian god does not exist and that fact is demonstrable. I cannot disprove that their is a higher power but the Universe seems to do just fine without that assumption.

"Some of us have to work for a living."

Some of us have to go to school for a living.

February 5, 2013 at 12:28 a.m.
Easy123 said...

sTUpid,

"You’re quoting the New York law and it applies only to students attending public schools and not private schools."

No one mentioned anything about private schools. That fact disproves any claim you might have had against myself or Alprova anyway.

"The SCOTUS ruled that the “Release Time” did not violate the constitution and in no way limits their ruling only to the New York law and its one hour requirement."

And? It still has nothing to do with funding religions classes in public schools. The classes still cannot be held on public school property. The one hour clause is irrelevant when not referring to the New York law. That's simply how it works in New York. No one stated otherwise. LMFAO!

"Your going to make one hell of a lawyer … LMFaO !!"

LMFAO! You aren't!! Your legal skills are inept to say the least.

February 5, 2013 at 12:34 a.m.
Easy123 said...

sTUpid,

"Sure looks like we were discussing private schools … POW !!"

And no tax money is being deferred from our public schools to do it. POW! The emphasis was on public schools. Read the next line from Alprova:

"Public schools are set aside to be used by all. If one desires a curriculum for their children that includes religious instruction, then they can pay for that privilege out of their own pockets."

LMFAO! You keep digging your hole deeper and deeper.

February 5, 2013 at 12:38 a.m.
GameOn said...

Easy said..,The Christian god does not exist and that fact is demonstrable. I cannot disprove that their is a higher power but the Universe seems to do just fine without that assumption.

I was just like you many years ago. It is ironic that you used the verse Matthew 7:7 (ESV): “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you." A friend challenged me to seek out God with that verse. He said read with an open mind and ask God to reveal himself to you. He said to start with the book of John, then the New Testament, and then the Old Testament. It changed my life. I am not into wasting my time or throwing away money but I would not change the last 20 years of my life.

Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship. Religion is not always a good thing.

February 5, 2013 at 12:51 a.m.
Easy123 said...

sTUpid,

"I’ve never claimed to be one or to have studied law (except business law) but even at that I can easily put you ass in the shade… LMFaO !!"

LMFAO! Only in your dreams. You just go served, sweetheart. That's why you're running away. No amount of words at any time would validate anything you've said to this point.

See ya later, Queen StrapOn. LMFAO!

February 5, 2013 at 12:52 a.m.
Easy123 said...

GameOn,

"He said read with an open mind and ask God to reveal himself to you. He said to start with the book of John, then the New Testament, and then the Old Testament. It changed my life."

And? Divine revelation proves nothing.

"I am not into wasting my time or throwing away money but I would not change the last 20 years of my life."

Good for you. I'd love to take back my religious indoctrination and the delusional mindset I attained from it during my childhood and into my teen years.

By the way, your god doesn't live up to that verse. But I'm sure you believe differently. Most narcissists (Christians) do.

February 5, 2013 at 12:56 a.m.
MTJohn said...

caddy said..conservative's question to some here is valid.

Yes. But it does not belong in a conversation about this cartoon.

February 5, 2013 at 8:15 a.m.
caddy said...

Fair enough MTJohn. It's easy enough to digress in such a conversation. I'll leave it with: I'm not much of a McCain fan. So in that I would agree with Clay.

February 5, 2013 at 8:32 a.m.
MTJohn said...

Caddy - the conversation began in and was relevant to "the check". That thread is still active and it should have stayed there.

It is easy enough for conversations here to deviate from the topic of the cartoon that initiated it. However, what happened here is not a case of digression. Instead, it is a matter of one poster who has a habit of disrupting today's conversation by continuing yesterday's conversation in it.

February 5, 2013 at 9:06 a.m.
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