published Sunday, December 1st, 2013

Iran

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

105
Comments do not represent the opinions of the Chattanooga Times Free Press, nor does it review every comment. Profanities, slurs and libelous remarks are prohibited. For more information you can view our Terms & Conditions and/or Ethics policy.
nucanuck said...

We can only hope that the West hasn't set up the next phase of the negotiations to fail over some point that Iran cannot possibly agree to. That could be the prelude to war that many in the US, France, Saudi Arabia, and Israel have been hoping for.

Iran has a far less belligerent history than most of the Middle Eastern countries, but has fallen under a barrage of US and Israeli misinformation and distortions. Iran's advanced culture and energy resources make them the probable kingpin in the region if the US strategy to force a war should fail.

Nuclear weapons are a pretext, the real issue is regional power.

The US has been the bad guy in the Iran story for more than sixty years and it still continues today.

December 1, 2013 at 12:40 a.m.
fairmon said...

Once again we are meddling in the affairs of another country when we should be assuring we have the capability to defend our country from any attack by a foreign power. We keep insisting others adopt our way of governing while we can't defend our own borders but we insist on attempting to control other countries. Quit interfering with Israel and they will handle the Iran problem much better than the U.S. or U.N. There is no legitimate justification for over 100 U.S. military bases around the world with billions of dollars in foreign aid provided with borrowed money. Close the bases, bring the troops home and stop the foreign aid. Spend that money on assuring the strongest defense possible, rebuilding America's infrastructure and caring for the homeless and hungry in the U.S. Celebrates love the publicity associated with their benevolence in other countries while ignoring needs just as great in the U.S. Our transfer of wealth to other countries with our staggering trade imbalance is more than enough foreign aid. Those that accuse the U.S. of trying to control and govern the world as other dynasties in history attempted to do but failed may be right.

December 1, 2013 at 12:57 a.m.
nucanuck said...

fairmon, that's a good summation of what has to happen as part of America's rediscovery.

December 1, 2013 at 1:34 a.m.
jesse said...

Iran has been taking lessons from N.Korea on how to snooker the U.S.A.!

December 1, 2013 at 2:14 a.m.
SeaSmokie59er said...

All fizz, no boom...like the Benghazi non-scandal.

December 1, 2013 at 2:53 a.m.
fairmon said...

Propaganda is the tool used by our politicians and media to have us reach conclusions they want us to and to behave as they desire.

December 1, 2013 at 3:39 a.m.
EaTn said...

Maybe this President has the foresight to only cut the fuse in Iran, whereas the last near-sighted President poured gasoline on the fuse in Iraq.

December 1, 2013 at 6:51 a.m.
jesse said...

Since his foresight is working so good i guess he decided to use his N.Korean strategy on Iran!!

Ease the sanctions and tellum"Now you boys play nice or i'm gonna get angry!!"

December 1, 2013 at 7:55 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

All the other alternatives are unacceptable, so trying this angle is definitely worth the effort and the only possible path to a solution.

December 1, 2013 at 8:39 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

The sanctions were working. Why ease them now? Another snooker like N Korea. Yet another blunder by the White House from hell.

December 1, 2013 at 8:56 a.m.
jesse said...

Be Be Netenyahu has the right idea! Let him take care of it!

Hard to make a BOMB outta a big hole in the ground!!

December 1, 2013 at 9:08 a.m.
fairmon said...

inquiringmind said...

All the other alternatives are unacceptable, so trying this angle is definitely worth the effort and the only possible path to a solution.

IM....Do you know what all the other alternatives are that you label as unacceptable? Who other than you find all other alternatives unacceptable, based on what criteria? Are you sure you have full access to and understand this angle which you deem worth the effort and the "only" path to a solution?

Do you find Israel's option of military action unacceptable and would you advocate the U.S. government attempt to sway Israel's decision?

December 1, 2013 at 10:35 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

nucanuck says "Iran's advanced culture and energy resources make them the probable kingpin in the region if the US strategy to force a war should fail." Exactly what advanced culture are we talking about, Nuc?

December 1, 2013 at 10:49 a.m.
librul said...

Nuc said: "Nuclear weapons are a pretext, the real issue is regional power."

That's the most definitive statement in the thread. The sovereign nations of the region are nothing but chess pieces to the West. Their proxy, Israel, to whom they have gifted billions in weapons and military aid so it can act in their corporate interests while yakking about protecting itself, is going up in smoke one day regardless - and justice will be done.

December 1, 2013 at 10:55 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

So librul, Israel going up in smoke is justice?

December 1, 2013 at 11:01 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Do you boys really think this about nuclear weapons? Even if Iran had a nuclear capability, they wouldn't be a threat to the US and they wouldn't be able to use a nuclear weapon without being immediately annihilated. The same with North Korea. There wouldn't be a North Korea an hour after they dropped a nuclear bomb.

All of this war and destruction in the Middle East is about power and control of the most resource rich area of the world. The US had their man in Teheran from 1953 to 1979 and has been trying to regain control ever since. Iran is the key and the epicenter between Eurasia and the oil rich Gulf states. Iran is an ancient and rich culture while their rival, Saudi Arabia, is the new rich redneck.

Military power can destroy a country, but it cannot conquer a country, not even pitiful Afghanistan. It is the massive display of power by the US that has caused the problems in the Middle East in the first place. Without that power those countries would have still wanted to sell their oil to the highest bidder. The military intervention has only made problems that didn't need to be. If they fight among themselves, so be it.

Iran is not the problem, it's the flailing US empire trying to hold on to past glory. That's about over because the money spigot is about to run dry.

December 1, 2013 at 11:13 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

So nuc, like librul, you too want to see Israel go up in smoke?

December 1, 2013 at 11:19 a.m.
fairmon said...

nucanuck why does their advanced culture include death by stoning of women for certain actual or perceived transgressions? Is their advanced culture something North America should emulate? There are exceptions but many Iranians, like others in that region and north Africa, are radical barbarians.

December 1, 2013 at 11:20 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

I think Nucanuck is in the carpet bidness.

December 1, 2013 at 11:24 a.m.
Maximus said...

Yes Nucanut, it's all our fault and the best days are over for the USA and especially YOU! Why is hatred of American exceptionalism a common trait of all loser liberals? I can only figure it's their own guilt about being born in the first place. Believe me, we all wish you cynical, guilt ridden, social justice, food police libs had never been born either.

Our current screwed up Iran policy can be blamed on two Marxist socialists that also hate American exceptionalism......Vietnam War Hippy Protester and Coward S.O.S. John Kerry and of course Barry The Welfare Pimp. That's all.

December 1, 2013 at 11:28 a.m.

"America's rediscovery" what does that mean? You mean Obama apologizing for us, and idiots on the left stating that we're no better than any other country and that 's good for the world?

Obama has made sure our "past glory" is trashed and we're on our way to being just another country. America haters love this administration

Iran is laughing at us. That sums up the whole thing. If anyone believes that Iran's leaders give a flying flip about making any real deals, then you're naive. Extremist Islam takes no prisoners. When you will you liberals learn? Iran would never make a deal if it didn't benefit them and their cause. Extremist Islam views liberals in this country the same way the old Soviet Union did, simply as useful idiots.

December 1, 2013 at 11:29 a.m.
fairmon said...

Why is the U.S. the only country up to their eye balls involved in the middle east spending billions and sacrificing their young men and women? It is the American ego and oil. It is naïve to think any form of government similar to a democracy and certainly not a republic will work in a country so divided by tribalism. Perhaps a loss of oil from those sources would force us to utilize our own untapped sources and to pursue alternatives.

December 1, 2013 at 11:31 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Perhaps so, fairmon. Then, drill baby drill, no?

December 1, 2013 at 11:38 a.m.
fairmon said...

Allow those in the region to fend for themselves and destroy each other then turn Israel lose and the region may go up in smoke but in a matter of weeks Israel will rule the region.

December 1, 2013 at 11:39 a.m.
fairmon said...

PlainTruth said...

Perhaps so, fairmon. Then, drill baby drill, no?

YES, drill on shore, off shore and get on with the friggin fracking and pipe lines. What would the government do with all those income taxes from the added jobs and royalties from oil? We have those that would probably still need to borrow to feed their spending habits.

December 1, 2013 at 11:43 a.m.
tifosi said...

We are pursuing alternatives. Billions of dollars are being spent right here in Tennessee http://www.ornl.gov/ . But, the RWNJ thinks that would be stupid. Something about alternative energy instantly makes them think "liberal". Innovation is a bad word to people like Maxipus. He suffers from "grey beard syndrome" and wants everything to stay the same, so he doesn't have to innovate. "Greed" is his mantra... hey isn't that one of seven deadly sins Maxipad?

December 1, 2013 at 11:44 a.m.
jesse said...

Fairmon, the ONLY reason we haven't done that is OIL!The country would have to shut down till Israel got production up and running again and that might take years!BUT if that happened it would be a brand new ball game in the U.S.A.! Gas wound be back to .50c a gallon!

December 1, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.
fairmon said...

tifosi said...

We are pursuing alternatives. Billions of dollars are being spent right here in Tennessee.

Government will not be the entity that discovers and makes alternatives competitive. That will come from the private sector if the government will avoid intervening or seeking to participate in the gains. It is sad that idiots like Nancy Pelosi think they know more about what is needed than those fulfilling the need. God forbid that Obama or McCain be hired to run any business venture, which applies to most members of congress from either party. They are primarily big spending lawyers that can't even manage well their spending and government charity work.

December 1, 2013 at 12:35 p.m.
rick1 said...

A list of failed Obama Green Energy and Solar companies that were given billions of dollars from the government.

The government has no business trying to pick winners and losers and all of these companies should have been funded solely with private money and not public money.

http://www.dividedstates.com/list-of-failed-obama-green-energy-solar-companies/

December 1, 2013 at 12:44 p.m.
prairie_dog said...

Negotiating with Iran is like feeding a dog you KNOW was bitten by a rabid raccoon. It's just not going to turn out well for ANYBODY.

President Obama is holding true to his anarchist agenda of gutting the United States and feeding the offal to welfare cases.

It's just not going to turn out well for anybody.

December 1, 2013 at 1:04 p.m.
rick1 said...

Iran has certainly become lovable Islamists, haven't they?

"This vicious temperament of dogs and pigs is you (Israel)," said Ayatollah Mohammad Imami Kashani, a member of the Assembly of Experts, the body that appoints the supreme leader, at Tehran's interim Friday prayer. "The Quran has marked on your foreheads that you will be humiliated. The Zionist officials are like animals, and truly as rogue thugs they do whatever they want, killing people, creating bloodshed and destroying whatever they want."

Kashani said at this week's Friday prayers sermon in Tehran that whenever Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu appears on television, "all of the world hates you. You are hated, humiliated and despicable and," the ayatollah added in a putrid insult to make to a Jew, "have been immersed in the flesh of rabid dogs and pigs."

Kashani also had harsh words for the Obama administration: "Nations of the world are the enemies of the Zionists and (America's support of Israel) will have you share the misery of the Zionists."

Kashani stated that uranium enrichment is Iran's right and that America, Britain and Israel lie when they say Iran wants the nuclear bomb.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/30/iran-quran-has-marked-israelis-as-rabid-dogs-and-pigs/

December 1, 2013 at 1:14 p.m.
tifosi said...

fairmon - Do your homework. Oak Ridge (the government) performs research that the private sector cannot justify. There are private sector companies utilizing the resources in Oak Ridge every day.

http://www.innovation-america.org/how-they-do-tech-transfer-oak-ridge-lab

I know for a fact that Bridgestone/Firestone took a keen interest in the Spallation Neutron Source. Supercomputers at ORNL is not what a private sector company can afford. DreamWorks could not afford it, thus they used Jaguar to produce Shrek.

http://computing.ornl.gov/supercomputing.shtml

December 1, 2013 at 1:55 p.m.
tifosi said...

Even NASCAR teams have utilized ORNL to solve problems that the private sector couldn't solve.

http://web.ornl.gov/ornlhome/print/press_release_print.cfm?ReleaseNumber=mr20040831-00

December 1, 2013 at 2:28 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

fairmon, you have no idea the chaos it would cause if Israel started a war with Iran, it would rapidly expand into a regional war more likely than not involving nuclear weapons. There is too much at stake in oil for the major powers to stand aside and let them destroy each other.

Furthermore, Israel cannot survive on its own, it requires US aid to survive. Israel will do what it does, but calmer heads in Israel know the potential cost and risk. Why should we defend Israel in a war it starts?

The alternative to war with Israel and this exploration of trust is keep doing the same thing. In that case within a few years Iran will (or could develop) have nuclear capability. IMO that is not an acceptable alternative either.

The Saudi's loathe Iran almost as much as Israel. We cannot count on them. China and Europe would love to have Iranian oil, Russian probably prefers to keep Iranian oil out of the market. The US is a net exporter so it doesn't really matter to us.

The amount of dollars at risk to try a 6 mo "can we trust each other" is about $6B, out of several 100B of frozen assets. The worst that can come of it is $6B changing hands, the best could be a new relationship akin to what existed post-WWII.

As long as people keep painting their opponents as madmen or fanatics or Satan no progress towards reasonable peace is possible.

Israel itself faces the same internal struggle over the two state option. There is no satisfactory alternative short of forcibly removing all Palestinians or making Palestinians citizens of Israel making current Israeli's a minority, neither of the latter two alternatives will never happen.

The bottom line for Israel is it cannot survive long term if it desired to maintain hostile relations with its neighbors (unless we bail them out if possible).

But perhaps you have some crystal ball and the wisdom of minds not readily accessible on this plant to offer your own solution...

December 1, 2013 at 2:45 p.m.
nucanuck said...

JFK told Israel absolutely NO to nuclear weapons. With French help the Israelis secretly built them anyway. If the world is to be fair, there should be harsh sanctions on Israel until she agrees to abandon her 200+ nuclear bombs.

Iran has abided by the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, Israel has not. Iran has not attacked any of her neighbors, Israel does so regularly with Syria being the most recent. The most backward radical country in the region is Saudi Arabia, a close US ally.

There is a geo-political pattern aimed at destabilizing the Shia countries to the advantage of the Sunni countries. The Sunnis may act like US allies at the moment, but they have no love for the US, nor should they. The US would double cross them in an instant as was done with Saddam and Moammar. Everyone wants the same thing-strategic control of the oil.

A few previous posts suggest that the US could become energy independent and maybe even have lower prices with all-out drilling. That is simply not true, not possible, unless the US cut oil consumption almost in half. There is a huge difference between reserves and resources. Most resources will NEVER be extracted because it is cost prohibitive. Most oil shale requires more energy to extract than is produced. The fracking boom will be at max production before the end of this decade, before production goes into a rapid decline. If the US drilled in every possible spot, there still wouldn't be enough for independence for more than a few years. Then what?

The cold hard truth is that the US is going to continue to use less oil year after year because of both price and accessibility. Lower oil consumption translates directly into lower growth. Just as growth grew all last century as cheap oil consumption exploded, so will growth level then fall with less availability and higher prices for oil in this century.

The world is going on an energy diet, but not without a lot of unnecessary conflict. The confrontation with Iran is all about oil and who she is allied with. The West should sign the deal with Iran and drop all sanctions. The Iranians are far more interested in business than conflict.

December 1, 2013 at 3:03 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

IQ says "Why should we defend Israel in a war it starts?" because they're an ally

IQ says"The Saudi's loathe Iran almost as much as Israel. We cannot count on them" are you kidding? The Saudi's would probably secretly finance Israel's war on Iran

seems to me, IQ, you're doing a fair amount of crystal ballin your own self

December 1, 2013 at 3:03 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

PT asked earlier with no response "So nuc, like librul, you too want to see Israel go up in smoke?"

December 1, 2013 at 3:05 p.m.
nucanuck said...

IQM, The US is not a net exporter of oil and never could be. The US now produces about 2/3 of US needs and it may go somewhat higher before reversing back to trend, which is down.

December 1, 2013 at 3:12 p.m.
nucanuck said...

PT, In the long run, Israel has to learn to live with her neighbors. That may not be possible given the history of her first 65 years. Judaism will survive, the jury is still out on Israel. A negative for Israel is the US is so weakened economically that Israel may not be able to count on the US backstop that has been in place so far.

Israel has no friends on planet earth except for the US. There is a reason for that. I think the US should give Mississippi to Israel. We could have peace in the Middle East and a booming state in place of a loser.

December 1, 2013 at 3:24 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

mediaite.com

Face the Nation host Bob Schieffer (Fleabagger apologist) spoke Sunday morning to House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy about the newly-brokered deal halting portions of Iran’s uranium enrichment program, and asked if the congressman thought the Obama administration had pursued the deal to distract from the troubled Affordable Care Act rollout.

”This might be a diversionary tactic by an administration desperately looking for good news,’” Schieffer said. “Would you put it in that category yet?”

December 1, 2013 at 3:29 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

By Rebecca Shimoni Stoil

Iran is currently enjoying a “window” of time before the six-month deal signed in Geneva early Sunday goes into effect, during which it is not bound to take any credible steps toward disabling its ability to produce a nuclear weapon, the State Department acknowledged Tuesday.

State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said that the six-month interim period, during which Iran would take steps to rein in its nuclear program in exchange for sanctions relief, has not yet begun. Furthermore, there are still a number of details to be worked out, she said, without specifying what points had yet to be finalized.

Her comments created confusion as to whether the much-touted interim deal, supposedly reached by P5+1 powers and Iran in Geneva in the early hours of Sunday morning, had actually been completed as claimed.

Iran on Tuesday accused the US of publishing an inaccurate account of what had been agreed. And its Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif said in an address to the Iranian parliament Wednesday that Iran would continue construction on the Arak heavy water plant, in an apparent breach of the ostensibly agreed terms.

Psaki’s statements largely confirmed speculations by former State Department official and ambassador Elliott Abrams, who argued in his Council for Foreign Relations blog earlier Tuesday that the language used by the White House to discuss the Iran interim deal was largely “aspirational,” suggesting that much of the touted P5+1 deal with Iran had yet to be hammered out.

So there really wasn’t a deal reached ??

December 1, 2013 at 3:42 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

So, Jt. What you're suggesting is that the P-5 accord is just another in a long line of diplomatic snafus by the Jarret Adminstration, no?

December 1, 2013 at 4:04 p.m.
librul said...

Nuc said: "I think the US should give Mississippi to Israel."

C'mon, Nuc. That wouldn't work. In a few short weeks it would be lobbing missles at poor Blacks in Alabama and Louisiana.

December 1, 2013 at 4:08 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

hey lib, I thought your ilk was against stereotyping and generalizing. guess not.

December 1, 2013 at 4:13 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

From Investors.com

As Bill Gertz of the Washington Free Beacon reports, groups of technicians from the Shahid Hemmat Industrial Group (SHIG), a unit in charge of building Iran's liquid-fueled missiles, have made repeated trips to North Korea during the past several months, including as recently as late October, to work on a new 80-ton rocket booster being developed by the North Koreans.

The booster was described by one official as a thruster for a "super ICBM" or a heavy-lift space launcher. "It is completely new from what they have done so far," he added.

The blog 38 North, part of the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies, disclosed last month that satellite photos showed an expansion at a North Korean launch site for a larger rocket.

"The fact of the matter is that Kerry and crew left both ballistic missiles and the nuclear warhead trigger experimentation at Parchin (military site) off the table" during talks in Geneva, (former Pentagon adviser Michael Rubin) said.

December 1, 2013 at 4:18 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

By Wesley Pruden

Barack Obama, resolute enough when he’s designing health care schemes, shows only irresolution abroad. Weakness and irresolution is the face he turns to the rest of the world, in hopes that if he hires a good speechwriter and bows deeply enough to whatever kings and potentates cross his path, that’s good enough.

Mr. Obama is challenged now at every turn by friend and foe of the United States who need to see on what meat the man feeds, and of what stuff his promises and assurances are made. The mullahs in Tehran, who can’t believe how easy it was to roll the president and his counterparts in Geneva, had no sooner signed the agreement to preserve the Iranian pursuit of the bomb at a bargain price than the mullahs began dreaming up new demands. If the mullahs could roll him once, they could roll him twice.

China has drawn an unusual “air-defense zone” in the East China Sea meant to test the resolve of Japan, South Korea and above all the United States, to see who if anyone will try to do anything about it. The first Chinese aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, was dispatched to the area on a training mission, innocent enough but intended to show that Beijing is big enough to back up a threat. The Chinese have no doubt noticed that Mr. Obama’s red lines eventually fade to green. The Chinese in Beijing read the newspapers.

President Hamid Karzai is negotiating the terms of the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan. Mr. Karzai desperately wants to forge such an agreement, but only on his terms, which change frequently. Susan E. Rice, the White House negotiator, told Mr. Karzai that if there’s no agreement soon, the United States would withdraw all its troops and trainers in 2014. Mr. Karzai was so intimidated that he added the new conditions, including a demand that all prisoners at Guantanamo be freed.

Neither was he impressed by colleagues in the Afghan government. One of them told The New York Times that Mr. Karzai was only contemptuous of the American threat, and joked about the lack of American resolve. He asked Mr. Karzai what he wanted as the final outcome of the negotiations. “It is favorable if they surrender to us,” he replied. “The United States has come, and it will not go, brother. It does not go. Therefore, ask your demands, and don’t worry.”

December 1, 2013 at 4:20 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Maybe our State Dept is not inept. Maybe it's intentional.

December 1, 2013 at 4:25 p.m.
jesse said...

How anybody can still have any doubt that Obama is a disaster is beyond me!He is so far out of his depth it's obvious he hasn't a clue what to do nor how to go about it! It's gonna take 25 years to get over him !

December 1, 2013 at 4:56 p.m.
nucanuck said...

jesse,

It is not so much Obama as the clock has just run down on the Anglo-American empire. The US never was exceptional, only dealt very good cards by the end of WWII. The US, with all their industry intact, was off to the races while the war-torn economies struggled. With US help, the developed countries caught up and then passed the US in many areas. Now the developing world is on a tear just as the US is suffering from forty years of poor economic decisions that have left the US unable to compete.

Put anybody you want in the saddle on Pennsylvania Avenue and you will get the approximate same result. The US is too divided to be governed well. The US needs to push the reset button and that will cause real pain, so the US just keeps kicking the can down the road. There is no political relief, only picking up the pieces after the inevitable collapse will allow true reform and re-direction

Is an austerity induced collapse better than a maximum debt induced collapse? They both hurt the same, but the latter may give more time to prepare for those who are so inclined.

December 1, 2013 at 5:28 p.m.
jesse said...

What we NEED is a Taft style republican!

December 1, 2013 at 5:39 p.m.
nucanuck said...

What you guys need is a national enema. The stinky stuff is everywhere.

December 1, 2013 at 5:51 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

newcanuck is a Manchurian Candidate from Iran. Via Canada. Revoke his visa.

December 1, 2013 at 6:12 p.m.
jesse said...

he must not be a fan of Robt. Taft!!

December 1, 2013 at 6:33 p.m.
Maximus said...

Tifosi....no being an early investor in various wireless companies as well as Apple I certainly do understand innovation and my ample bank accounts and contributions to my church and over seas mission activity is a testimony to my continued investment in great American advancements in technology. Nucanut is most Ikely another person living off the success of his Daddy or Granddaddy. Google, Facebook, Ford Motor, Wal Mart, General Dynamics, Publix Super Markets, Smith & Wesson, 3M, Amazon......the list of innovative American for profit companies could go on and on. Tifosi, Nutachuk, the long lost Alprova and not o forget Limric...folks there will always be losers that simply could not compete in free market,EXCEPTIONAL America and most of them are lovers of their OWN victimization and are Democrats. It's gonna be a wonderful Christmas!

December 1, 2013 at 6:45 p.m.
tifosi said...

Greed = Maximus's downfall

December 1, 2013 at 6:50 p.m.
tifosi said...

President Obama went shopping for Plain Truth's Christmas present... The Joy of Hate.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbc-news/53708590/#53708590

December 1, 2013 at 6:52 p.m.
nucanuck said...

PT,

Look over Iran's history and tell us what makes them such a bad country. Forget all the propaganda and demonization...just the facts. Then pick a few other countries from the region and check them out. Iran is not the boogey man that the West makes out.

Iran would make a better ally than most of the rest. China and Russia have already figured that out.

December 1, 2013 at 6:59 p.m.
nucanuck said...

maximouth is just another new rich blow hard, self absorbed to the extreme. Nobody with any class talks up their own financial prowess on a open forum. Loser with change in his pocket...whoopdeedoo!

December 1, 2013 at 7:04 p.m.
fairmon said...

NUCUNUCK said...

The West should sign the deal with Iran and drop all sanctions. The Iranians are far more interested in business than conflict.

nucu, we often agree but your sources or whatever drove you to this conclusion is about as reliable as Obama's sources and his promises.

I think the U.S. and others should stop interfering and encourage Israel to end the misery and get it on with any and all they feel threatened by. I would venture to say by the time the third bomb exploded they would be fighting each other for a place at the table to reach a peaceful settlement.

December 1, 2013 at 7:09 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Tiffany...you're the hater, Bunky. I'm simply a loveable moderate.

Nuc, that little episode with the hostages did not endear Iran to many.

December 1, 2013 at 7:25 p.m.
tifosi said...

"I'm simply a loveable moderate." ROFLMAO!

"moderate" BULLSHYTE!!! and the Pope is Jewish.

December 1, 2013 at 7:27 p.m.
nucanuck said...

PT,

The Iranians overthrew the Shah, the US installed puppet, after the CIA toppled their democratically elected President. Oppressive dictators don't leave easily. Under the circumstances in place, the hostage crisis was a pretty tame transfer of power. Consider the US engineered transfers in Iraq and Libya for bloody awful comparisons. Or the attempted coup in Syria engineered by the US Israel and Saudi Arabia. Now those are ugly!

December 1, 2013 at 7:40 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

You don't much like the US, do you Nucky? Are you posting from Iran?

Hey Tiffy, you see any polyps up in there?

December 1, 2013 at 7:44 p.m.
tifosi said...

Nah... just your head. Doesn't look like it has seen daylight in a long time.

December 1, 2013 at 8:13 p.m.
nucanuck said...

PT,

Nope, you've got it wrong. I have had a deep love of country for my whole life. What's changed is when I realized how much the US government has deceived the people about sooo many things, I lost faith in the US government not the US potential to right the ship. I see it as constructive to interject thought provoking comments on this forum in hopes of getting people to open their minds to a broader context, a world context. I spent a part of my life with thoughts mostly formed at the provincial level and I felt set free when I moved beyond that.

When I seem to be America bashing, my aim is to point out what many others in the world believe to be a more accurate version of the truth. Since the US government has been a world leader in interfering in other countries affairs, there is a lot to criticize.

My hope is that there is a new day coming for the US, even though, at the moment, things don't look good.

December 1, 2013 at 8:21 p.m.
joneses said...

Just wanted to let you know - Saturday I received my Fiscal Cliff Survival Pack from the White House. It contained a parachute, an 'Obama Hope & Change' bumper sticker, a 'Bush's Fault' yard sign, a 'Blame Boehner' poster, a 'Tax the Rich' banner, an application for unemployment, an application for food stamps, a prayer rug, a letter of assignation of debt to my grandchildren and if that was not enough, there was a coupon for a machine that blows smoke up my #$%. Everything was made in "China" and all directions were in Spanish. Keep an eye out. Yours should arrive soon!

December 1, 2013 at 8:45 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

By George Will:

The "New York Times" who deepened its story this morning, quotes Robert Einhorn who recently left the State Department and until he left, he was in charge of the enforcement of the sanctions. He says the following in defense of this deal. He says, "I think the sanctions won't erode as fast as some fear." He seems to be conceding the fact that they will, indeed, erode.

I think four things are now clear.

First, there will be no U.S. attack on our negotiating partner, the Iranians. That's off of the table. Probably, a good thing, but now formally off the table.

Second, the president said he is not going to contain a nuclear Iran. I think that will be our policies, containing them, because I think they are going to get the bomb.

The third, the big question is what would Israel, abetted by Saudi Arabia, which is terrified of Iran do at this point.

Fourth, will the final reaction be the proliferation of nuclear weapons in the Middle East if the Saudis sit their own arsenal.

December 1, 2013 at 10:32 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

From weeklystandard.com:

This interim agreement is badly skewed from America’s perspective. Iran retains its full capacity to enrich uranium, thus abandoning a decade of Western insistence and Security Council resolutions that Iran stop all uranium-enrichment activities.

Allowing Iran to continue enriching, and despite modest (indeed, utterly inadequate) measures to prevent it from increasing its enriched-uranium stockpiles and its overall nuclear infrastructure, lays the predicate for Iran fully enjoying its “right” to enrichment in any “final” agreement. Indeed, the interim agreement itself acknowledges that a “comprehensive solution” will “involve a mutually defined enrichment program.”

This is not, as the Obama administration leaked before the deal became public, a “compromise” on Iran’s claimed “right” to enrichment. This is abject surrender by the United States.

In exchange for superficial concessions, Iran achieved three critical breakthroughs.

First, it bought time to continue all aspects of its nuclear-weapons program the agreement does not cover (centrifuge manufacturing and testing; weaponization research and fabrication; and its entire ballistic missile program). Indeed, given that the interim agreement contemplates periodic renewals, Iran may have gained all of the time it needs to achieve weaponization not of simply a handful of nuclear weapons, but of dozens or more.

Second, Iran has gained legitimacy. This central banker of international terrorism and flagrant nuclear proliferator is once again part of the international club. Much as the Syria chemical-weapons agreement buttressed Bashar al-Assad, the mullahs have escaped the political deep freezer.

Third, Iran has broken the psychological momentum and effect of the international economic sanctions. While estimates differ on Iran’s precise gain, it is considerable ($7 billion is the lowest estimate), and presages much more. Tehran correctly assessed that a mere six-months’ easing of sanctions will make it extraordinarily hard for the West to reverse direction, even faced with systematic violations of Iran’s nuclear pledges. Major oil-importing countries (China, India, South Korea, and others) were already chafing under U.S. sanctions, sensing President Obama had no stomach either to impose sanctions on them, or pay the domestic political price of granting further waivers.

December 1, 2013 at 10:46 p.m.
nucanuck said...

Jt,

Are you only going to give us quotes from the neo-conservative perspective. Those are the same people that got us into Viet Nam and have had the US on a steady war diet ever since. Those are the people who sleep in the same bed with AIPAC. Those are the same people who had to find new enemies for the US after the end of the cold war. And those are the people who took America from most admired country to second most despised.

I suggest that you broaden your reading list.

December 1, 2013 at 11:05 p.m.
fairmon said...

nucanuck...Are you sure the U.S. is in second place as the most disliked country? Name one country we are not interfering with either directly or indirectly? The deficit spending of borrowed money could be eliminated in 2014 through reduced involvement in other countries, close the 100+ bases and stop foreign aid. This and a slight tweak to social security and Medicare would yield an annual surplus. It is difficult to over come the propaganda we are constantly exposed to.

December 2, 2013 at 2:22 a.m.
fairmon said...

nucanuck said...I suggest that you broaden your reading list.

I suggest instead of reading your broadened sources of propaganda you visit some of those countries and develop contacts with people there. You will get a different picture and defend them less and certainly see how futile the U.S. is in their attempt to influence and control them. There is a prevailing belief that failure to comply with U.S. demands will result in aggressive military action.

December 2, 2013 at 2:37 a.m.
alprova said...

Anyone missed me? I'm sure most of you haven't.

A few minutes after I wrote my last post on November 13th, I was in the back of an ambulance and being whisked off to Erlanger, after spiking a fever of 104 degrees in a matter of minutes.

It seems I contracted a very serious case of gangrene in my right leg, which was amputated in a two step processs on the 16th and the 18th.

Needless to say, it's been an interesting two and a half weeks, but the Good Lord is not done with me yet.

I've got a lot of healing to do and am recovering in my parent's home at the moment, and have come a very long way in the four days since I was discharged from the hospital.

All it apparently takes is a scratch to allow some of those very bad bugs into one's body.

So please, everyone, guard your health with an iron fist. I wish everyone well, and will be checking in as I feel like it.

In a few months, I'm sure I will be good as new!!

December 2, 2013 at 6:51 a.m.
jesse said...

Al i sent ya a message on facebook checking on ya!Didn't hear back and so started checking the obits for yer ass!!

welcome back and hope ya heal up quick!!

December 2, 2013 at 7 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Oh, dear. I am so sorry, alprova. Wishing you a quick recovery.

December 2, 2013 at 7:02 a.m.
Maximus said...

Tifosi and Nutanuk.....greed no.....ambition, drive, and determination.....YES! My reference to my financial and personal success was simply my way of saying that an INDIVIDUAL with a strong work ethic, drive, and determination can accomplish anything they set out to accomplish especially in the most exceptional country in the world....the good ole U.S.A. !

Alprova, glad you are back with us and feeling better. Take care of yourself. Now, I gotta go to work, Barry needs the tax money! :)

December 2, 2013 at 8:37 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Al, glad to hear your going to be OK. That is frightening to think such a situation could arise just like that. Hang in there!

December 2, 2013 at 9:47 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Alprova: I like to bust your chops, but have never wished anything bad on you. Get better.

December 2, 2013 at 10 a.m.
inquiringmind said...

nucanbuck, the US produces more oil than it uses.

December 2, 2013 at 10:14 a.m.
jesse said...

Kinda short sighted ain't ya IQM? How long ya think thats gonna last?

December 2, 2013 at 10:29 a.m.
nucanuck said...

fairmon,

I don't admire any country in the Middle East with the possible exception of Turkey, who has found a way to straddle two different cultures with fair success.

If we think back twelve years, the Middle East countries that had best blended secularism in with Islam, that had some degree of westernized thought within there population, they would have been Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Libya. They had fair education, health care, and had emergent prosperous middle classes.

With the exception of Turkey, the US has been in the process of destroying the "best" of the Middle East. Most of the rest, our "friends", are either hard right Islamists, or US client states.

It certainly appears that the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia have made a pact with the devil, each for different reasons, to destroy the stronger counties in the region. Of course I'm guessing, but that is the way it appears to me.

I see Saudi Arabia as far more dangerous ideological threat than Iran. They use their money to fund zealotry and extremism, whereas Iran has a relatively large worldly middle class in their cities who want what we want. Both fund their supporters beyond their borders, but so do we. As long as Israel has nuclear, there is no solid justification to sanction or bomb Iran. Iran has no history of attacking her neighbors. If you recall, it was the US who pushed Iraq to attack Iran back in the '80s. I believe that the US also gave Iraq gas at that time. Nice!

The list of countries I DO admire is rather short: the Scandinavian countries, Germany, the Baltics, Singapore, Uruguay, New Zealand and Canada (except for the present group in power). If there is a common thread, it might be that these countries are not heavily religious and seem to keep a clear separation between governance and individual beliefs. That was the intent of the US founding fathers, but the last thirty years has shown a huge surge among the heavily religious, now beginning to rival some of the extreme Islamic countries in their intensity.

December 2, 2013 at 10:37 a.m.
nucanuck said...

IM,

The US uses something near 18 million barrels per day, down from over 20 million. The US produces something near 10 million, up from about 7 million. Correct me if I'm wrong.

December 2, 2013 at 10:42 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Nuc: How does it feel to have it all figured out?

December 2, 2013 at 10:48 a.m.
nucanuck said...

PT, I'll let you be the first to know when I have it all figured out. In the mean time I will continue to read and learn as much as my old brain will absorb.

December 2, 2013 at 11:04 a.m.

Wish you the best Alprova. That's a terrible thing, and we hope you heal quickly.

December 2, 2013 at 3:05 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

Nucanuck,

The US is almost exactly on the balance point because use is decreasing and production is increasing. Here is a link to a USA today article from last month:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/13/us-oil-production-exceeds-imports/3518245/

That does not mean we do not import oil, though, to the tune of about 35% of demand. Lot of reasons for that but not worth going into here.

December 2, 2013 at 3:13 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

inquiringmind said...

the US produces more oil than it uses.

inquiringmind said...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/13/us-oil-production-exceeds-imports/3518245/ That does not mean we do not import oil, though, to the tune of about 35% of demand. Lot of reasons for that but not worth going into here.

An excellent read of the article on your part.

The subheading of your linked article:

”The United States still imports 35% of the petroleum it uses”

December 2, 2013 at 4:24 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

tifosi said...

President Obama went shopping for Plain Truth's Christmas present... The Joy of Hate.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbc-news/53708590/#53708590

Did you see that thieving a-hole sign the credit card receipt and then put that copy in his shopping bag. The store clerk was obvious too embarrassed to call him on it. I bet that scumbag pulls that all the time to beat small businesspersons out of their “profit” which as a socialist a^^hat he enjoys.

LMFAO !!

December 2, 2013 at 4:27 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

nucanuck said...

What you guys need is a national enema. The stinky stuff is everywhere.

I thought that was taken care of when your anti-American a^^ was flushed to Canada.

December 2, 2013 at 4:28 p.m.
nucanuck said...

IM,

In your 10:14 am post you said that the US produces more than it USES, not more than it imports. That was the confusion and the reason I responded.

My response was a little high on the production side. The US had been as low as 5 million barrels per day and is now up to around 7 million. That means the US is importing about 7 million and the other 4 million must come from biodiesel, ethanol. and gas liquids.

The oil engineers I follow expect US production to approach 10 million barrels per day by the end of this decade or sooner and then turn down with rapid depletion because of the nature of fracked wells.

The article you linked said that oil use is falling because of the President's conservation initiatives. I call BS on that. The miles driven in the US have dropped steadily for about five years and that is probably because of the weak economy, fewer people working, higher price of gas, etc.

If the US and world economies drop as is predicted, we may see a big drop in oil demand and prices. That sounds like good news, but that would squeeze all of the high cost producers that we have come to depend on. If they shut down, it is not easy to just crank up again later and that may cause real supply disruptions as the economy tries to get back on track.

The long and the short of it is that the US will probably always be dependent on imported oil no matter what the US does.

December 2, 2013 at 4:29 p.m.
nucanuck said...

Jt, there is a difference between anti-American and honest American. All that denial some of you boys put on display doesn't seem to let you wrap your minds around the problems.

If and when I say things that are incorrect, call me down. I don't say unpleasant things about my birth country with a mean spirit, but rather to get people thinking. My wisecrack reply to jesse was meant to be funny, not to be taken seriously even if corruption is rampant. If you were offended, I apologize.

December 2, 2013 at 4:43 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Nucanuck, Jt couldn't find a good retort to copy and paste from the WWW. He is cut from the cloth (same as PT, Caddy, Conservative, Minimus, etc.) that if you don't agree with him verbatim, you are a blasphemous, anti-American, liberal communist. It's akin to proclaiming that if one wants a reduction in money paid to military contractors, then one is against the US servicemen/women.

December 2, 2013 at 4:50 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

nucanuck said...

My wisecrack reply to jesse was meant to be funny, not to be taken seriously.

My reply was in the same manner ... didn’t you also laugh at it?

If you were offended, I apologize that you misunderstood me ... my standard Fleabagger inspired apology.

December 2, 2013 at 4:54 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

nucanuck said...

The US now produces about 2/3 of US needs and it may go somewhat higher before reversing back to trend, which is down.

So you’re saying that all finite natural resources, if used, will eventually be depleted. I really truly love how you always state the obvious but I think that’s just the inherent Fleabagger trait coming to the fore.

December 2, 2013 at 4:56 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

nucanuck said...

PT, In the long run, Israel has to learn to live with her neighbors. That may not be possible given the history of her first 65 years. Judaism will survive, the jury is still out on Israel.

I think after the last group of Fascists tried to exterminate them the current generation of Jews have vowed “Never Again”. They have armed themselves in a homeland and they will not let the present crop of Fascist vermin and their anti-Semitic enablers (you Fleabaggers?) easily lead them to their death this time. If their “neighbors” don’t want to be atomized they will be the ones learning to get along.

A negative for Israel is the US is so weakened economically that Israel may not be able to count on the US backstop that has been in place so far.

It has nothing to do with economics but entirely with having the morality of supporting the only true Liberal Democracy in that region of the world.

Israel has no friends on planet earth except for the US. There is a reason for that.

Nations don’t have friends as they only have other nations that share and respect their interests at any one specific time. The world is full of people that don’t like the Israelis but they certainly do respect their desires and abilities to secure their self determination. Because the ones that don’t have experienced first hand the humiliation of a good old time a^^ whipping that can be administered to them

I think the US should give Mississippi to Israel. We could have peace in the Middle East and a booming state in place of a loser.

Well that’s racist on several levels ... isn’t it?

December 2, 2013 at 4:58 p.m.
jesse said...

Looks like JT has my 6 whether i want it or not!!lol

December 2, 2013 at 4:59 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

librul said...

Nuc said: "I think the US should give Mississippi to Israel."

C'mon, Nuc. That wouldn't work. In a few short weeks it would be lobbing missles at poor Blacks in Alabama and Louisiana.

See Above.

December 2, 2013 at 5:01 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Gassy. Do not lump me with anyone. I'm my own middle of the road man.

December 2, 2013 at 5:10 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

GaussianInteger said...

Nucanuck, Jt couldn't find a good retort to copy and paste from the WWW. He is cut from the cloth (same as PT, Caddy, Conservative, Minimus, etc.) that if you don't agree with him verbatim, you are a blasphemous, anti-American, liberal communist.

The reality is that even though I may or may not exhibit that characteristic it little changes the fact that you Fleabaggers are “blasphemous, anti-American, liberal communists” ... Right?

It's akin to proclaiming that if one wants a reduction in money paid to military contractors, then one is against the US servicemen/women.

Come on; be truthful to yourself if not anyone else. It has nothing to do with military contractors as it is all about the military ... Period. They’re the force that insures the implementation of U.S.’s imperialistic designs on the world and props up an evil economic and social system here at home ... Right?

December 2, 2013 at 5:16 p.m.
jesse said...

P.T. , ya think yon gassius instigator's handle might be some what EGO driven?? Gotta be a smart dude to even know what one o them is!!

December 2, 2013 at 5:16 p.m.
nucanuck said...

Jt, Would you mind repeating all that?

December 2, 2013 at 5:28 p.m.
nucanuck said...

Jt, is a Fleabagger good or bad? How do they act?

December 2, 2013 at 5:32 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Yeah, Jesse. The integer's handle is a bit pretentious.

December 2, 2013 at 5:37 p.m.
souldancer said...

Aloha alprova - yes, I missed your posts! Rest well. May your recovery be simple ...

December 2, 2013 at 7:44 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"Yeah, Jesse. The integer's handle is a bit pretentious."

And PlainTruth isn't?

In a course I took in college, I wrote a paper on C.F. Gauss. I also studied number theory. For some reason the name just popped in my head when I created my account.

And Jt, you can call me a "fleabagger" and "anti-American", but I was in the US Navy for 6 years. There isn't anything more American than serving your country.

December 2, 2013 at 9:11 p.m.
please login to post a comment

videos »         

photos »         

e-edition »

advertisement
advertisement

Find a Business

400 East 11th St., Chattanooga, TN 37403
General Information (423) 756-6900
Copyright, Permissions, Terms & Conditions, Privacy Policy, Ethics policy - Copyright ©2014, Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc. All rights reserved.
This document may not be reprinted without the express written permission of Chattanooga Publishing Company, Inc.