published Friday, August 23rd, 2013

Climate Change

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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PlainTruth said...

Looks like my Weber.

August 23, 2013 at 12:07 a.m.
fairmon said...

Check the history of the climate before the human ego led to claims they could affect it. Some remember when the river froze over and people in Chattanooga drove and walked on it. Droughts, floods and other events had people wondering before there were combustion engine emissions what was causing the climate to change. Emissions are bad for human health and vegetation which is a good reason to address the source but it is not likely it has an impact on the climate. Scientist are divided on the issue with those that elect to believe that people are the cause demeaning and calling those not agreeing names.

August 23, 2013 at 1:07 a.m.
nucanuck said...

Is a ratio of 97 to 3 divided or just fringe noise?

August 23, 2013 at 1:53 a.m.
Maximus said...

It's actually been a cooler than usual summer. God and nature are in control.....not man, and certainly not Al Gore or Barry The Welfare Pimp.

Leaving tomorrow for our mission trip to Russia. School you loser, anti-Christian, pagan, liberals in a month or so. God bless!

August 23, 2013 at 5:29 a.m.
MTJohn said...

nucanuck said...Is a ratio of 97 to 3 divided or just fringe noise?

...and the 3 pretty much funded by the petroleum industry.

Maximus said...School you loser, anti-Christian, pagan, liberals in a month or so. God bless!

James 3:10

August 23, 2013 at 5:43 a.m.
anticorp said...

The T-Party types tend marry common sense. I heard a common sense response put to one of them recently. It went like this:

If I get sick, really sick, like cancer with a known substantial cure rate. The common sense course of action is to get a second and maybe a third opinion.

One of them points to the success of faith and prayer and the rate of success is scientifically found to be low or at best the placebo effect. The other one or two opposing treatment modalities (like melanoma treated at early, thin stage = 94% success) supported by the vast majority of medical science.

That is the kind of comparison between the deniers and AGW ( of man made global warming) - 5% to 95% of the worlds climate scientists.

August 23, 2013 at 5:46 a.m.
anniebelle said...

Scientists already see that people are suffering from the heat-trapping emissions in the atmosphere. But when I talk to people about this, many don't always accept the science. It's likely because Americans have heard so many conflicting messages about climate change online or in the media. That's no mistake. The fossil fuel industry borrowed a political playbook from the tobacco industry before them: when scientists discover that your products are risky, attack the science.

August 23, 2013 at 6:12 a.m.
conservative said...

Hey nucanuck

You say you are consuming 2.3 earths.

What is the math on that?

August 23, 2013 at 6:25 a.m.
joneses said...

Another opportunity for jesse jackson, al sharpton, obama, holder and the other race baiters. why does the liberal media not run to them on this one?

Police in Washington state are searching for two young suspects who beat a World War II veteran to death in a parking lot Wednesday night. The Spokane Police Department says in a press release officers responded to reports of an assault and found the victim in his car with serious head injuries. He later died in the hospital. Authorities on Thursday released surveillance photos of the two suspects, who they describe as African-American males between the ages of 16 and 19.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/23/world-war-ii-veteran-beaten-to-death-by-2-teenagers-in-washington-parking-lot/#ixzz2cmrte5gY

August 23, 2013 at 6:38 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

That was a horrible story. There is no punishment harsh enough for the perps.

August 23, 2013 at 6:40 a.m.
BigDonL said...

Anyone that thinks that our actions don't affect the world, how about you run your grill inside your house.. Then build a fire in your fireplace and close the flu. Sit back and observe the "climate" in your house. Tell me our actions don't do anything after that.

August 23, 2013 at 7:15 a.m.
conservative said...

Did you ever notice that few actually say that mankind is causing climate change?

August 23, 2013 at 7:25 a.m.
BigDonL said...

Ummm.... Just about every intelligent person says that mankind is causing climate change. Perhaps that is not the circle you run in @conservative.

August 23, 2013 at 7:48 a.m.
joneses said...

First the lie was "global warming". When that became unpopular the liberal lie was "man made global warming". When that was unpopular the liberal lie became "climate change". The liberals have a list of scientist that signed a document declaring there is "man made global warming". Now that the new label is "climate change" the document the scientist signed is void. What they do not tell you is these scientist that signed the "man made global warming" declaration also received grant money for their signature. What the liberal climate change extremist will not show you is the list of scientist that could not be bribed into signing the original "man made global warming" document. Have you ever noticed how these liberal "climate change" alarmist will claim any type of weather is the result of "climate change"? When it rains, when it is hot, when it is cold, when it snows, when it is a hurricane, when a tornado strikes they all jump on the "climate change" lie. All the "climate change" lie is meant to do is give the left wing, socialist, liberal extremist reason to pass legislation to give the government more control over our lives. Take time to look what is in the Cap and Trade bill that Nancy Pelosi's House of Representatives passed. It is all designed to control the masses.

August 23, 2013 at 7:49 a.m.
jesse said...

Well con man If it's not mankind doin it then it MUST BE GOD!right!? I mean like those are the ONLY two options so explain to me why GOD would be doin this???Ya think maybe he's P.O.'D about them CROSSES on E.Brain.rd .or sumethin?? Jonses, are you and con man the same dude??Neither one of you make a lick of sinse!

Bigdonl, The REAL 1% in this country are the folks that actually THINK!! 99% don't realize they even have a brain,much less use it!

August 23, 2013 at 8 a.m.
conservative said...

Well BigDonL I just read all of the previous comments and you are the only one who personally admits it. The regulars here don't.

Read the Free Press piece "Raining our way to climate change" just a couple of days ago dated august 18th.

The writer implies but never states that mankind is causing climate change. I have challenged some of the regular gloom and doomers who comment here to tell me what they are doing to cause global warming or climate change and none have yet to admit what they are doing to cause it.

August 23, 2013 at 8:12 a.m.
BigDonL said...

Do you really believe that pumping tons of toxins into the air and water has zero impact? There is more to Climate Change that the temperature.

August 23, 2013 at 8:16 a.m.
joneses said...

I understand why my post does not make sense to you jesse. A sign of liberal mental illness is not being able to comprehend that which you do not agree with. Thinking that the lie called man made global warming can only be caused by man or God is absurd. Like those are the only two things in the universe? Weird. Maybe the sun is in a warming cycle or maybe there is no warming on earth at all. As much as the liberal extremist hate to believe it climate change is not that obvious as they want us to believe.

I have to go now as I am on my way to a meeting to decide how my company will address the rising health care premiums I am paying for my employees.

August 23, 2013 at 8:18 a.m.
conservative said...

BigDonL

Winter, Spring, Summer, and Fall.

Just like God ordained clockwork.

August 23, 2013 at 8:23 a.m.
conservative said...

jonses,

Well said 7:49

August 23, 2013 at 8:24 a.m.
jesse said...

SO JONSES< You ain't told me yet who causes it!!

LIKE CLUE ME IN man !! Where is this shat commin from???

GOD ain't doin it and mankind ain't doin it SO WHO IS doin it??

I KNOW ! THE DEVIL is doin it!Does that work for ya??

August 23, 2013 at 8:29 a.m.
limric said...

Good one today Clay, as is the link to the NYT article Ikeithlu.

So why is global warming still a talked about like it’s in question? Simple: because people are paying to keep it that way. Those with vested interest, such as the fossil fuel industry, their attendant special interest groups and think tanks it funds are spending big bucks to create doubt about global warming. And make no mistake, they have been very successful transforming scientific methodology/evidence/findings into a 'he said, she said debate.'

Is the sky pink today?

P.S. the term 'global warming' was revised to 'climate change' by the Bush admin. as its official terminology because it sounded less scary. Not a 'liberal lie', as some are so fond of spouting.

August 23, 2013 at 8:30 a.m.
fairmon said...

Man causes pollution and the resulting ill health results but man cannot control or affect the climate. The climate was changing in this country when Native American Indians were the only occupants and they weren't polluters. Dust storms, heat, drought, freezing and terrible winters are documented in history. The climate will change regardless of what man does or does not do. Destruction of the rain forest and destruction of trees and vegetation in general exacerbate the affects of air pollution on humans and animals. The reasons for reducing emissions and pollution are much greater than climate change but doesn't play as well for politicians and special interest. At one time the majority of people including the scientist were certain the world was flat. Those accepting climate change as manmade are like those with superstitions when any weather event occurs they proclaim it to be the result of human behavior like the superstitious relate a bad event to the number 13, walking under a ladder, breaking a mirror, black cats etc. etc. and proclaiming I knew something bad was going to happen.

Reduce or eliminate pollution for the right reasons but Al Gore and others don't pee on my leg and try to convince me it is rain.

August 23, 2013 at 8:50 a.m.
facyspacy said...

Weather seems to be extreme in the last couple years... Here's a brief history review of climate in the world. The earth, being billions of years old, has had dramatic climate changes. Pleistocene.... The ice age lasted almost 2 mil years Holocene.... The warming of the earth about 12000 bc Younger-dryas.... This period interrupted the Holocene with temperatures dropping 4-5 degrees globally. Then 1500 years later the hotter periods returned and temperatures were 2 degrees hotter than today....

Blah blah blah.... Global warming is a joke. Climate change has always been around. It was a heap of bs from gore that made him a lot of money

August 23, 2013 at 8:51 a.m.
jesse said...

Thanks Limric,Drop by an drop a terd of wisdom on us every so often!!Give Bennett a kudo's and ride off into the sunset!

I may live in a van down by the river BUT i'm startin to get a handle on you and it ain't good!Maybe ya need to spend some time gittin OVER yourownself!Ya ain't NEAR as smart and well read as ya think ya are!!

August 23, 2013 at 8:54 a.m.
whatsnottaken said...

That's right, keep the heat inside while those of us who live on the surface go about life knowing anything that happens there is occurring naturally.

August 23, 2013 at 9:36 a.m.
TheCommander said...

Climate Scientists? What is that anyway? In our brave new world of dead, lifeless and very expensive universities we have created these specialized off-shoots of traditional science disciplines to herd in the so-so students who couldn't pass the 2nd semester of thermodynamics or differential equations. Not that I could pass thermo myself mind you but I hope I would have the integrity to not take money from the Sierra Club just to yell, the sky is warming! The sky is warming!

Gender studies, race identity studies, Climate science, etc... These universities are being used to destroy us instead of lift us up.

Joneses, good words on the carbon tax. Are you aware of the proposed global tax proposed at the Rio 20 Summit? Communitartianism at work.

August 23, 2013 at 10:05 a.m.
tifosi said...

Go back in your cave Commander.

August 23, 2013 at 10:14 a.m.
nurseforjustice said...

If anyone thinks that what we do on this earth does not have consequences then you are living under a rock. That said, I do NOT believe in Global Warming. Climate change has been happening for a long time and there has not been long enough documented studies to prove anything.

However, Cancer, along with other diseases, is running rampant in our time, more so than previous times. I know there is more to our plights than just the climate but it is worth looking at and studying to know what is the effects are on us and the earth.

This Carbon tax is one of the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. What is that supposed to do, provide more O2? I admit I do not understand the reasoning behind that one.

August 23, 2013 at 10:30 a.m.
Rickaroo said...

Nobody disputes that climate change occurs and has always occurred in nature, regardless of whether humans are a significant part of the equation or not. Of course there is a natural occurrence of carbon gases that build up in the atmosphere, even if we humans were not taking up space on the planet. We all know that. But since we ARE here on this earth everything that we humans do must be considered in the equation of what might or might not contribute to climate change.

If the Industrial Revolution had never happened and we were still plodding along in horse-drawn buggies, making everything by hand, and living by candlelight in our un-air-conditioned homes it would be easy, and even logical, to surmise that whatever climate change was occurring was strictly a natural occurrence and our human activity was not the direct cause of it. But....how is it possible that anyone can even think that dumping trillions upon trillions of tons of carbon (much more carbon than would be present otherwise) and other toxic gases into the atmosphere for the past 200 years would NOT have some sort of long-term deleterious effects? One need not be a scientist to at least wonder about that and think that surely that has to have some pretty bad consequences somewhere down the road. And the amount of greenhouse gases pumped into the atmosphere from humans alone has increased exponentially these past 100 years.

You deniers make it seem that we who accept the reality of AGW have egos big enough to think that our actions can affect climate change. But ego has nothing to do with it (where do you even come up with that? Geez!). It's simply a matter of doing the math, or the science, calculating how much bad sh#t in the way of heat-trapping gases we have dumped into the atmosphere (that would not be there otherwise) and what effects it is having on the natural world.

You deniers are about as dense as Bible thumpers when it comes to vilifying science. Where does this antipathy for real science come from? How can an almost unanimous body of climate scientists agree on something and you claim that they are ALL lying and involved in some massive liberal/government conspiracy, every last one of them? And you choose to believe instead those "scientists" who are obvious shills for big oil and the related businesses who have much to lose if climate change is real and is caused by us humans. If you at least acknowledged that there is room for doubt on both sides of the debate you would not appear quite so ridiculous and obviously ideologically biased. But not only do you not express doubt, you state emphatically and repeatedly that we human are NOT causing climate change, end of discussion. it's pointless to argue with such simple-minded knee-jerk reactionary buffoons.

August 23, 2013 at 10:49 a.m.
conservative said...

nurse,

One big reason is revenue to the Feds to feed and grow Socialism.

People, even Liberals hate to pay taxes so Socialists hope to mitigate the complaints by convincing them that this carbon tax is preventing a catastrophe.

August 23, 2013 at 10:55 a.m.
TheCommander said...

tifosi,

Reports surface in the TFP about how VW "saved" Chattanooga a few months ago. Similar story pops up in the Cleveland paper as well as several internet outlets all at the very same time. All the stories reference a study by the University of Tennessee Center for Economic Blah, Blah (I forgot the exact name).

The study is six pages long. The study has no documentation on the multipliers used to back up their claims. The study was funded by the Chamber of Commerce and used multipliers supplied by the Chamber itself. The authors will NOT return e-mails or phone calls requesting back up info. The study would not be acceptable for a 7th grader and yet we are to throw away millions based on it?

The politicians and Chamber used a tainted university department to help push for a 2nd round of taxpayer incentives for VW. The Chamber funded the study, then provided the data in the study!

With this example, do you not see why I am skeptical of university studies on things like climate change?

Back to the cave I go...

August 23, 2013 at 10:56 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Nurseforjustice: A shout-out to all in-hospital care givers. You guys are superb.

Jesse: Limric, aka the limmer, is well pleased with his ownself. If you know what I mean.

August 23, 2013 at 11 a.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Conservative, I don't want that kind of crappy answers. I know why politicians do things, we all do. I want the science behind what that carbon tax is supposed to do.

Rickaroo, I agree with most of what you said as hard as that may be to believe.

PT, Thanks. I think for the most part we try very hard to care the best we can.

August 23, 2013 at 11:08 a.m.
nurseforjustice said...

On a side subject: This site is so screwy. Sometimes it lets me in to read and comment then sometimes it blocks me out. Wish they would make up their minds.

August 23, 2013 at 11:09 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Mayor Bloomberg: Take Fewer Bathroom Breaks to Succeed. *Works for many. ALPO, The Limmer, Tifosi, seemingly have not had a movement in years.

August 23, 2013 at 11:12 a.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Poking the dragon are you PT?

August 23, 2013 at 11:15 a.m.
conservative said...

nurse, The help that a carbon tax will accomplish is miniscule. Even according to the loons own "science."

And this "science" is based on projections and many computer models that have never been right yet for it has always been garbage in and garbage out.

Forget the science, it is politics, specifically what I stated earlier.

August 23, 2013 at 11:23 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

nurse: why not?

August 23, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.
nurseforjustice said...

Play nice PT!

Conservative, Saying that Carbon Tax is politics is most obvious. Putting it in to practice is going to be a joke.

August 23, 2013 at 11:31 a.m.
fairmon said...

jesse said...

Thanks Limric,Drop by an drop a terd of wisdom on us every so often!!Give Bennett a kudo's and ride off into the sunset! Maybe ya need to spend some time gittin OVER yourownself!Ya ain't NEAR as smart and well read as ya think ya are!!

Jesse.....Otherwise what do you really think about Limric's post?

August 23, 2013 at 11:42 a.m.
TheCommander said...

Rickaroo said - "How can an almost unanimous body of climate scientists agree on something and you claim that they are ALL lying and involved in some massive liberal/government conspiracy, every last one of them?"

Rick, in the above statment, replace the words "climate scientists" with the words "intelligence experts". Change the subject from "climate change" to "WMD in Iraq" and change the word "liberal" to "conservative" and then I bet you can see how it can be denied.

I have no opinion on climate change so don't bother me about it. It is the wicked method of manipulation that is used that bothers me. I see you used the word "shill". That's a good word. Keep using it on these posts.

August 23, 2013 at 11:43 a.m.
hotdiggity said...

I see the the Flat Earth Society is well represented here today.

The same science deniers, (usually strongly represented by evangelicals), have denied the reality of the natural sciences for hundreds of years.

The petroleum industry and utilities appreciate your support.

August 23, 2013 at 12:16 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

diggity: Very typical. Everything comes down to the evangelicals, huh? You need to broaden your scope, chum.

August 23, 2013 at 12:17 p.m.
jesse said...

Fairmon! Limric is one of my fav.arsholes on here !He will lay some logic on your arz but does it in a way that pisses ya off! AND he insists on tellin Clay how great he is doin! Besides when ya tick him off ya know you are gittin ready to learn some new words!

August 23, 2013 at 12:34 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Yeah, the Limmer's need to flout his thesarusiwm certainly shows some self-esteem issues. Maybe he needs some form of enhancement.

August 23, 2013 at 12:45 p.m.
jesse said...

Yeah PT ,Like He thinks Clay Bennett is sittin around waitin on LIMRIC to drop by and lay a "good boy"on his ass!!

August 23, 2013 at 1:02 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

and the beat goes on Newly appointed United Nations ambassador Susan Power's absence from an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council on the alleged chemical weapons attack in Syria has raised eyebrows and questions. When pressed on the matter at Thursday's press briefing, State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki three times declined to give further details on Power's whereabout and referred further questions to the United Nations: Trying (in vain) to remember John Bolton missing emergency meetings of the Security Council (well, hell. everyone is entitled to a vacay)

August 23, 2013 at 1:07 p.m.
soakya said...

I believe that apathy comes because scientist can't even figure out whether coffee is bad for you one day to the next. Also because those who usually push the climate change catastrophe are usually the biggest abusers of the environment.

August 23, 2013 at 1:17 p.m.
soakya said...

The carbon tax is nothing but another wealth redistribution scheme. It is not designed to reduce carbon output.

August 23, 2013 at 1:27 p.m.
limric said...

So far, much of the commentary on today’s subject is (as I said earlier)’ he said, she said’.

I do have to give credit where credits due though. As much as it pains me to say it, and his contention that ” It is all designed to control the masses” is flawed, I’m glad Joneses mentioned ‘cap & trade.’ As am I pleased Nurseforjustice brought up the carbon tax. Both are big time cons.

The carbon tax, while certainly being a scam is nothing compared to”The Cap and Trade bill that Nancy Pelosi's House of Representatives passed.” It is a scam of epic proportions and thankfully, it’s dead. You wanna read something that’ll make the hair on your arms stand up, do some research into how cap & trade actually works and who’d make money from it. WOW!!

Let’s - for the sake of argument - agree that global warming is completely man made. Ok, now that we’ve acknowledged it; can, or will we reverse it? The answer, albeit hard for most to reconcile is a resounding NO!

When you really really think about it, you’ll realize (unfortunately) we won’t do anything. After over one hundred + years of gradual, and now utter dependence on, coal, gas and especially oil, a transition, even over say 50 or so years to…something (that ‘something’ has yet to be determined) is not something ‘western civilization’ is willing to do. [by‘Western civilization’ I meant any society not predominately hunter gatherers]

Until fusion, anti-matter, hydrogen, solar etc. makes HUGE advances you’re going to drive your van down to the river, buy your gas, turn on your lights, AC/heat, fire up the Weber and use the plastics in everything in your home just like you did yesterday. And then buy water at the 7-11 in a plastic bottle.

And besides; who’s going to have to ‘change’ their lifestyle?

These guys?

http://bjtonline.com/business-jet-news/channels/new-business-aircraft-preview

Or these guys?

http://www.superyachtworld.com/yachts/feadship-launch-is-most-sophisticated-boat-built-by-the-industry/

Not bloody likely mate.

Well, there’s my terd of wisdom. Oh yea Clay, yer doing great.

~"An now I think I might just -- Jump back on, An'ride - Like a cowboy -- Into the dawn to Montana".

"Movin' to Montana soon (Yippy-Ty-O-Ty-Ay)"

~FZ

August 23, 2013 at 2:29 p.m.
RShultz210 said...

You gaia worshipping liberal self panickers can keep pumping out the BS to help keep everyone compliant so the government can do whatever it wants to us, but no matter how hard you work at it, you can't get around the fact that climate changes have been with us since before the beginning of recorded time and they will continue long after we are gone. I have studied meteorology at UT and nothing you say will ever convince me that all the efforts of mankind put together will ever significantly affect a system as huge and complicated as the climatic system of this planet. And while we are on the subject of obtuse insults and silliness, let me say that I thought for a brief time a little while back with his brilliantly funny cartoon about Kevin Huffman and his absolutely ridiculous standardized testing, that perhaps he was morphing into a halfway decent cartoonist. I was obviously wrong about that. I should have realized that the theory that even a blind hog will find an acorn occasionally was correct after all.

August 23, 2013 at 2:53 p.m.
anticorp said...

conservative said... "Did you ever notice that few actually say that mankind is causing climate change?"

If you do just a little reading, instead of listening to Talk Radio and Fox you couldn't miss the term Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW). It's used in all the "scientific" and legitimate reporting.

Keep watching Fox and you'll know less the more you watch, says 7 different studies.

August 23, 2013 at 3:07 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Limmy movin to Montana to grow hisself some dental floss.

August 23, 2013 at 3:17 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

anticorp seems like a reglur Fox viewer.

August 23, 2013 at 3:22 p.m.
conservative said...

anticorp.

What are YOU doing to cause warming/climate change.

August 23, 2013 at 3:25 p.m.
RShultz210 said...

I got sidetracked while I was writing my comment and failed to mention that I was referring to Clay Bennett when I mentioned his obtuse insults and just plain silliness. I imagine most people were able to figure that out pretty easily but the Bennett fans might have had a little problem with it so I thought I should clarify to whom I was referring. Bennett is the only person who quite honestly makes me want Bruce Plante back.

August 23, 2013 at 4:02 p.m.
fairmon said...

Limric....2:29 pm post....excellent. Took a while to say it but on target. I don't buy the manmade climate change and I darn sure did not think cap & trade would do anything but make some chosen few wealthier.

August 23, 2013 at 4:18 p.m.
anticorp said...

conservative said... anticorp.

"What are YOU doing to cause warming/climate change."

Basic to correcting a problem is admitting you have one. I admit it and support the political policies to deal with it. I support moving to alternative energy and have my community very interested in taking a bite out of fossil fuel driven electricity in my community.

I am open to change. How about you?

August 23, 2013 at 4:41 p.m.
conservative said...

anticorp,

What are YOU doing to cause warming/climate change?

I love "fossil fuel driven electricity." It is cheap and plentiful and has WARMED my home and church and business and restaurants and schools etc.

I am opposed to spending money on a costly myth/scam when we have such an abundance of cheap natural resources to meet our energy needs both now and in the future.

August 23, 2013 at 5:17 p.m.
limric said...

Fairmon,

The point that you don't buy the manmade climate change, or I do, or polls indicate that more than half of Americans either disagree, or are unaware is largely irrelevant. Anthropogenic Global Warming is a fact. We can all stamp our feet and play the he said, she said game all day but the fact of the matter is that we WILL NOT change anything. Like it or not, WE CAN”T! I have a strong suspicion you already know this though.

. Anticorp,

Quote: ”I support moving to alternative energy and have my community very interested in taking a bite out of fossil fuel driven electricity in my community”.

Great, I support alternative energy too. BUT. What is a viable (‘viable’ is the key here) alternative source that is as cheap as coal, gas or oil, is relatively benign (ecologically) that will affect how we live the least?

Nuclear power perhaps?

August 23, 2013 at 5:32 p.m.
tifosi said...

Forget all those highly educated scientists. We got knuckle draggin' morons on this site that know better.

August 23, 2013 at 6:24 p.m.
tifosi said...

Republicans like Corker, Alexander and Haslam are big supporters of the Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Here is what one of those at ORNL has to say about the subject...

"Are greenhouse-gas concentrations increasing? Are humans causing these increases? Is the planet’s average near-surface air temperature increasing? Is the relationship between greenhouse gas increases and near-surface air temperature strong enough to influence climate? (The answers are yes, yes, yes and yes.)"

http://climatechangescience.ornl.gov/content/oak-ridge-national-laboratory-scientist-talks-climate-kingston-rotary-club

August 23, 2013 at 6:28 p.m.
tifosi said...

God will "bring to ruin those ruining the earth"-Revelation 11:18

August 23, 2013 at 6:38 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Yes, the climate is changing. Fast. Because we are shifting the carbon out of long term storage and into the atmosphere faster than it ever has been. Will we stop it? Probably not. The ones that will suffer will be those that already live on the edge (ie not us in the western world.) We don't really care too much about other countries and their problems anyway.

What will happen sooner, and is unrelated to global climate change, is loss of water resources in some of our major cities. Atlanta. San Antonio. Albuquerque. Phoenix. And the final draining of the Oglala Aquifer under the great plains, our bread basket. We have traded long term water resources for short term gain, and will exhaust them. We don't think of fresh water as a limited resource, so that will come back to bite us on the butt.

August 23, 2013 at 6:49 p.m.
conservative said...

anticorp,

You wrote:

"Basic to correcting a problem is admitting you have one"

Yes,take your own advice and for the third time, what are YOU doing to cause warming/climate change?

August 23, 2013 at 7:06 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Tiffy, are you mocking?

August 23, 2013 at 7:20 p.m.
GameOn said...

The Claim: 50 million climate refugees will be produced by climate change by the year 2010. Especially hard hit will be river delta areas, and low lying islands in the Caribbean and Pacific. The UN 62nd General assembly in July 2008 said: …it had been estimated that there would be between 50 million and 200 million environmental migrants by 2010.

The Test: Did population go down in these areas during that period, indicating climate refugees were on the move? The answer, no.

The Proof: Population actually gained in some Caribbean Island for which 2010 census figures were available. Then when challenged on these figures, the UN tried to hide the original claim from view. See: The UN “disappears” 50 million climate refugees, then botches the disappearing attempt

The Change in claim: Now it is claimed that it will be 10 years into the future, and there will be 50 million refugees by the year 2020.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/climate-fail-files/

In the 70's, we were told an Ice Age was coming.

August 23, 2013 at 9:03 p.m.
rick1 said...

Ike, how much is your 435 diesel power boat hurting the environment?

August 23, 2013 at 9:05 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Not much. We run it so infrequently. In addition, we have no lawn, are limited to 30 amp 110 V electricity shore power and use about 300-400 gallons of water per month. We have an 11 gal hot water heater that heats up in 30 min; we use it once a day. We live and shop in a small town. And it is a 453 not a 435.

When we do travel, we use about 3.5 gal of fuel per hour; we anchor at night using no shore power-the batteries are charged by the engine and last overnight and the water is heated by the cooling system. The furthest we traveled without a long break was 10 days. We were underway intermittently from Dec 1 to March 15. I'd say that we consume less resources than the average home and commuting worker.

We handle our waste responsibly, recycle our oil, and have safeguards to contain fuel and water spills. We use no hazardous chemicals that can fall in the water.

Oh, and I forgot to say we cook over propane (unless it is too hot) and have one tiny AC unit and a couple of box fans. This serves as our house. We can use our little microwave but only if the AC and water heater are turned off.

How about you, rick? How much energy and water do you consume per day?

August 23, 2013 at 9:55 p.m.
tifosi said...

More than that.

August 23, 2013 at 9:59 p.m.
rick1 said...

When you do run your boat is still discharging oil into the water. you mentioned earlier this week that you are scarping and painting the bottom of your boat. The solvents used for cleaning and repair of your boat and the heavy metals from the paint all cause pollution to the water even if your boat is docked in the water and not traveling.

I'm sure I'm using more energy and water then you are but I'm not polluting the water by having motor oil and solvents from cleaning materials drop into the water like your boat is doing.

So who is causing more damage to the environment?

August 23, 2013 at 10:22 p.m.
rick1 said...

Ike do you get a new and cleaner engine every year because that is recommended to help reduce water pollution?

Just saying if you serious about doing your part then do it right.

August 23, 2013 at 10:42 p.m.
Maximus said...

I like the Weber grill for my red meat cooked over charcoal briquettes. That is coal folks which is actually quite "organic" and quite "green"! And........isn't fossil fuel, green and organic? Global warming such a big government, tax scam. Really people? I love driving my V8 F-150 Raptor really fast up Signal on a clear morning.

F U you bunch of Bradley Manning cross dressing Al Gore cock sucking enviro global warming Prius driving, Obama Marxist weak welfare dependent pussy freaks. I like my Weber grill so Clay you can suck Alprova's male genitalia. :)

August 23, 2013 at 10:46 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

wow

August 23, 2013 at 10:49 p.m.
Maximus said...

Rick1....are you dating Bradley Manning. God you are suuuuuch a pussy. Your Father is in mourning about ever conceiving you. Do the right thing. End your Father 's misery NOW!

August 23, 2013 at 10:54 p.m.
alprova said...

Yep...ole Maximyth is a SHINING example of an admirable Christian that everyone desires to emulate.

August 23, 2013 at 10:56 p.m.
volsam said...

Apparently,Clay Bennett and the rest of the far left just doesn't get it.The scam called climate change is laughable.These so called scientists are no more than snake oil salesman.The funding is based on results so if they say the climate is good they lose their job.Libs must not remember the global cooling scare of the 70's.that was when the last ultra progressive president Jimmy(don't call me James) Carter was president.The big scare then was cfc's and freon. These progressive liberals just want to take our money and waste it through redistribution.There utopian social ideas are costing us everything given to us by in my opinion the greatest generation.The welfare state that Barry is pushing will be the down fall of our ounce great nation.I just hope if there is a God he has mercy on us.

August 23, 2013 at 10:58 p.m.
Maximus said...

Rick1....Ike do you get a new cleaner engine every year.....Bla, Bla, Rick do you change your Kotex each week because you vagina odor problems. OMG! Are you really Ricky Martin? I don't think that queer lives in the Chatt area.

Rick you are a simple useful idiot. How does it feel to be among the Obama white noise that no one hears because they are too broke.

August 23, 2013 at 11:05 p.m.
workinjay said...

Maximus,

I think you misinterpreted Rick1's posts. He was sarcastically pointing out liberal hypocrisy.

August 23, 2013 at 11:09 p.m.
rick1 said...

Max, it obvious you did not read and understand what I was saying to Ike. Ike is a believer of climate change and I was asking if she is doing her part to reduce global warming and was being sarcastic.

Next time why don't you slow down and try to comprehend what people are writing before you shoot off your mouth and make an Ass Hole of yourself.

August 23, 2013 at 11:11 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Methinks someone is suffering from low T.

August 23, 2013 at 11:12 p.m.
Maximus said...

Alpo...contrary to popular thinking Christians have balls too for which Alprova your Kotex needs changing.

August 23, 2013 at 11:13 p.m.
Maximus said...

Rick1 guess maybe Me thought u were that gay Rickaroo. You are forgiven. Ball on my friend, Ike is an irrelevant like Alprova.

August 23, 2013 at 11:16 p.m.
Maximus said...

The Weber grill globe is a nice touch. Clay is encouraging the grilling of red meat. Sooooooooooo politically incorrect Clay what will your friends at Blackberry Farms think?

Better go get some free range Sushi. Yuck!

August 23, 2013 at 11:20 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Max may be into the corn squeezins tonite.

August 23, 2013 at 11:21 p.m.
workinjay said...

Good evening Alprova. Yeah, I'm still hanging around. Don't worry. I won't start questioning your lack of truth. I do have one question though, are you ready to come clean?

August 23, 2013 at 11:22 p.m.
Maximus said...

What the F is low T? Is that the root cause of Democratitis, a pussification of all things American?

August 23, 2013 at 11:28 p.m.
Maximus said...

PlainTruth....please your room is ready with Chelsea Manning. Enjoy your stay.

August 23, 2013 at 11:31 p.m.
workinjay said...

Maximus,

You called Rick1 a pussy. No, you are the pussy. You wouldn't even man up and offer a genuine apology. In fact, you told him that he is forgiven. He had no reason to be forgiven, but you did. Rick1 appears to be one of the few stand-up guys on this forum. You have proven that you are about as reputable as Alprova. If anyone's father is in mourning, it would be yours. That's because he is ashamed of your existence. He had hoped to have raised up a man. Instead he had you. This of course is unless your father is just like you and is a big pussy too. Your mom knew she should have done the right thing and aborted you once she realized you were a weak little bitch incapable of standing up and being a man. So why don't you do the right thing and stand up like a man and apologize? Or you could remain being a pussy like the deceitful Alprova.

August 24, 2013 at 12:30 a.m.
Maximus said...

Kotex the brand just makes me think of Obama,Hillary (obviously not necessary any more), and any other white pagan anti-Christian male like Bradley Cooper, Clay Bennett, and hellhound cynical ( my wife and daughter were killed there is no God) Alprova. Weak really, extremely weak.

August 24, 2013 at 12:34 a.m.
Maximus said...

Workinjay may please go home. Your Mothers last customer just left and your Daddy is calling from rehab tomorrow. You are defending Rick 1. How very gay dude. This forum has gotten way too boring I'm leaving for Russia on Sunday.....I'm out. Alprova take over and enjoy your pointless pagan life on the way to nothing or better yet, hell?

August 24, 2013 at 12:42 a.m.
alprova said...

Oh me oh my...the hyenas are taking swipes at each other tonight.

Maximyth seems to be hitting the liquor heavily this evening, and he's into it with just about everyone.

Going to Russia, eh?

Sure you are.

August 24, 2013 at 1:30 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

rick, our boat is out of the water when the bottom is painted. Above the water, we are required to prevent oil, paint, or any other chemical from dropping into the water. As for solvents to clean the boat? We don't use them. Just a little water and a scrub brush. The engine does not discharge any oil into the water. Like all detroit diesels it leaks oil, but that oil goes into the bilge, where it is pumped into a separator and the oil retrieved. The engine is 50+ years old and will never be replaced (Gawd, I can't imagine getting it out). If you want to compare carbon footprints (the connection to climate) ours is very small. I'd like to know the size of your house, your kWh consumption, your average commute, your water consumption, whether or not you have a lawn and if you do, what you must do to maintain it. Let's have a comparison, rick, and a little education regarding our particular circumstance before you accuse me of damaging the environment.

As far as "believer" in climate change, it is not a "belief" system. If you understand how science is done and understand consensus, you accept that climate change is real. Of course, if you think that all science is just a conspiracy by the left, well, that's your right.

August 24, 2013 at 6:44 a.m.
degage said...

Rick, you would have to live on a boat to know boaters like Ike really care about the environment. Those of us that have spent any time on a boat know the rules and regulations. The fines can be astronomical. Even if you go aground on a reef you get fined.

Ike, don't let Rick bother you, he seems to be ignorant about the kind of people we are.

August 24, 2013 at 8:26 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

TO RUSSIA, WITH LOVE

August 24, 2013 at 8:28 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

degage, I kinda gathered that when he assumed I paint the bottom while the boat was afloat, when he assumed my engine discharged oil into the water (doesn't understand just how an inboard works) and I changed my (1500 lb) diesel engine to keep up with the technology. The size of the engine is misleading: a detroit 453 only develops about 120 hp. When we had a tranny failure the BoatUS tow had us at 3/4 hull speed with a 200 Evinrude. And you are certainly right about the strict rules and high fines. Marinas are especially careful. Our bottom paint was scraped off over a concrete basin where it was collected using a broom and dustpan.

Still waiting for rick to tell me about his "footprint".

August 24, 2013 at 8:37 a.m.
rick1 said...

I would bet your 50+ year old diesel engine burning low grade diesel fuel, which is causing significant air pollution because it releases large quantity of toxic gases and solid substances which pollute the air. Not to mention the exhaust of your boat being in the water is also causing a great amount of pollution.

How much energy should one use and who makes that decision? What is the appropriate amount of hydrocarbons, particulate matter, nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide, which is a major greenhouse gas that are being discharged into the water when you take your boat out?

You and other like to tell us how to live yet I would bet just by what your boat with its 50+ year old 453HP diesel engine is putting off into the environment with the five items I just mentioned above is making a larger foot print then you want to admit.

August 24, 2013 at 8:53 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

In other words you don't want to reveal your footprint rick.

Your ignorance is showing. Ours is a dry exhaust, and we can monitor it carefully for unburned diesel or burning oil, neither of which has happened. Marine diesel, while not at the quality of road fuel, is still pretty clean. Again, we don't use in a year what the average semi uses in a week.

The 453 is not 453 hp. Ignorance on top of not actually reading my posts.

Also, I have NEVER come on this forum and told someone else how to live. Your lies are adding up.

August 24, 2013 at 8:58 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Lu, Rick1, Please.

August 24, 2013 at 9 a.m.
jesse said...

LU, You guys be gitting good gas milage w/your boat! My carver had twin 185 hp. alpha 1's(gas) and at 12 to 14 mph i used at a rate of 1 1/2 mpg!!!

BTW: the average long haul truck will use aprox. $7,000 in fuel per week at todays prices!

August 24, 2013 at 9:04 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Jesse, we trade fuel efficiency for speed. We go real slooooow (7-8 knots)

August 24, 2013 at 9:06 a.m.
degage said...

Yup, Ike, us sail boaters go real slow. At least we get to enjoy the sights. Now that we live on land we use more fuel to heat our home than we used to power our boat in 5 years.

August 24, 2013 at 9:16 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Indeed! Our living space, although generous for a boat, is tiny and 30 amp AC is not enough to do very much. You have to alternate between uses our your flip the breaker. I can't imagine even a small house powered by only 30 amps.

August 24, 2013 at 9:20 a.m.
jesse said...

I did too after maxin out my visa card! When i first bought it ,before loading all my STUFF onboard i saw 40 mph w/it!I had to run 10 to 12 mph to maintain steering !

Even at 7-8 knots you guy are doin good!I hate to think what the price of fuel is on the water now!Prob $6.00 a gal. at least!!

WOW LU, my carver was just 32 loa and i had twin 30 amp shore power connections!

August 24, 2013 at 9:20 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Diesel runs just over $4/gal. At least that was the price in March, the last time we bought any.

August 24, 2013 at 9:21 a.m.
tifosi said...

Maxipuss said: "I love driving my V8 F-150 Raptor really fast up Signal on a clear morning."

You don't know what FAST is. I'd have you weeping like a baby.

August 24, 2013 at 9:28 a.m.
jesse said...

Just checked Chickamauga Marina ( only diesel on the lake) diesel prices! $4.16 a gal!!! Not as bad as i expected!!

BTW On the water diesel is #2 which is the same fuel you get at a truck stop!

August 24, 2013 at 9:31 a.m.
jesse said...

Tifosi, we don't agree about much BUT i will be eternally grateful for the isle of man video you posted! I musta watched that thing 100 times!I used to keep up back when Hailwood and Surtees rode M,V, Agusta there but never knew what a show it was till i watched that video!Absolutely amazing!Kicks nascaar into the DITCH!! Also got me into "within temptation"(the music) so i owe ya !!

August 24, 2013 at 9:39 a.m.
fairmon said...

The sky is falling is another way to manipulate peoples opinion. Why not address emissions and pollutions for the right reasons? We are killing ourselves with dirty air, we are cutting trees and other vegetation to build mansions and malls and reducing the natural air purifiers and killing ourselves with polluted air. Vegetation removes C02 and other impurities from the air. The data about climate and temperature change was found to be altered to make results closer to those desired. The temperature monitors were relocated and other events make the climate impact theory suspect but the air we breath is polluted and that is not from suspect data. The material or product that will do what needs to be done has not yet been discovered but the oil companies will likely be the source of that invention.

August 24, 2013 at 9:41 a.m.
jesse said...

Fairmon,the human race is burning the candle at both ends!Our time is running out no matter if we are the cause or not!resources are finite, we ARE gonna run out of stuff!No matter what the cause is a new ice age or global warming to +10* is gonna wipe us out ! That's the bottom line and all the jawboning about WHY ain't gonna change JACK!!

August 24, 2013 at 9:49 a.m.
fairmon said...

jesse....with the world population growing exponentially and doubling each generation you are totally correct although probably not in our life time.

August 24, 2013 at 10:10 a.m.
lkeithlu said...

Water will be the new oil. We are fast running low on cheap easy sources in the US, and not just in the Southwest states.

August 24, 2013 at 10:13 a.m.
tifosi said...

Jesse: When it comes to speed, politics are irrelevant. :)

This has been on my bucket list for years. I could never run with the fast guys, but still want to turn a 100 mph lap. Someday.

August 24, 2013 at 10:14 a.m.
jesse said...

Tifosi! Back about 1980 i had a built 750 honda cafe bike and lived on Signal Mtn!Every day goin up the mtn In the 4:00 gran prix i would be challanged by some dork in a Porche or Maserati or somthin! BLOW their DOORS off!Went thru the gun plant curve(sig.mtn. rd.) one time(2:00am) at 140! That's was as close as i ever wanta get!!

August 24, 2013 at 10:24 a.m.
rick1 said...

Ike, I will be honest I do not know my footprint.

Now please answer my question How much energy should one use and who makes that decision? How much hydrocarbons, particulate matter, nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide, which is a major greenhouse gas are being discharged into the water when you take your boat out?

August 24, 2013 at 10:42 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

Tiffy: You top 100mph daily on here with your venom.

August 24, 2013 at 10:48 a.m.
tifosi said...

jesse: Should have hung on to that Honda. The old café racers are popular again.

I spent years practicing a run from Cookeville-Gainesboro-Hilham-Cookeville. Saw three friends go to the emergency room trying to keep up. Never made it to the TT.

The TT is the oldest motorsports event in the world. In 104 years there have been 234 deaths.

August 24, 2013 at 10:50 a.m.
tifosi said...

PT- Nice to know I still have it. :)

August 24, 2013 at 10:55 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

and the machismo is stifling.

August 24, 2013 at 10:58 a.m.
tifosi said...

Yeah. :) Sucks to be you.

August 24, 2013 at 11:09 a.m.
joneses said...

Does anyone notice that there has not been would bit of positive news about obamacare? I hope all you obama supporters get everything you deserve in health care. The sad part is when you finally discover how obamacare sucks you will believe your messiah obama when he blames it on someone else. You obama supporters are that gullible, stupid and blind.

August 24, 2013 at 11:47 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

tiffy: Not really. You're the hater. And the macho man. 💪

August 24, 2013 at 11:54 a.m.
tifosi said...

And you are the epitome of love, peace and happiness. ROFLMAO.

August 24, 2013 at 12:03 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Most of the time tiffs. at lease I'm not eaten up with a regional, elitist, bias. sooo tacky.

August 24, 2013 at 12:19 p.m.
tifosi said...

You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.

  - Winston Churchill

How's that for a biased, regionalistic elitist?

August 24, 2013 at 12:30 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

rick, again-we do not discharge anything into the water. As far as the resource and energy use? Who said I claimed that there was guidelines as to how much one should use? You insinuated that because I own a boat I am consuming a large amount of resources compared to others. I consume less than the average American, but probably more than many people in the world. It is not my responsibility to dictate how much someone should use. If you are looking to pick a fight, go somewhere else. When I post about climate change, I post about the science, not the politics, not the economics and not the morality. You believe the climate is not changing? Fine. Bully for you. Believe that Elvis is alive for all I care. I demonstrated that you are both dishonest and ignorant, and are unwilling to even learn enough before you make accusations.

August 24, 2013 at 12:31 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Tiffy, like most of your posts, it makes no sense.

August 24, 2013 at 12:35 p.m.
tifosi said...

Must be over your head PT.

What lkeithlu said...

August 24, 2013 at 12:35 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

uh huh

August 24, 2013 at 12:42 p.m.
rick1 said...

Hey PT, you and tifosi, Please

August 24, 2013 at 3:53 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

haha rick

August 24, 2013 at 3:57 p.m.
rick1 said...

Ike, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you I'm just pointing out that you believe in the science that man is the cause of climate change and I'm just asking about what are you doing to save the planet. I misspoke when I asked about your boat discharging hydrocarbons, particulate matter, nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide, which is a major greenhouse gas into the water. With a dry exhaust system they are being discharged into the air so I apologize for saying discharged into the water.

Ike it appears you are the one who is being dishonest with yourself as you may believe you are doing your part when your boat is docked but look at the damage you are doing when you take your boat out. And it doesn't matter if you drive slow or not.

August 24, 2013 at 4:01 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Lu, what did you do to rick1?

August 24, 2013 at 4:14 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

What damage do I do when the boat is out? I use less fuel and discharge less CO2 in the air than most people on their regular commute. Who are you to decide you can tell me what I may or may not do? Did I instruct you to reduce your use? You can't even tell me what your energy use is. (you probably don't even know, but unless you live in a 500 ft2 house with no AC and drive 5 miles to work, you probably use more than I do)

Again, how can you connect my wanting to discuss the science (which is valid and real, no matter what you think) with assuming that everyone must use a specified amount of resources, and that I must justify this imaginary quantity to you? You began this conversation and accused me of hypocrisy-I said NOTHING about how people should live their lives, nor did I claim I was "doing my part". So your accusation of my "dishonesty to myself" are hollow and false.

I will say again: Climate change is real. Your lack of acceptance changes nothing. But I have no answers as to how to stop it. For all I know that is impossible anyway. Governments everywhere are already planning for higher temps, less water, and higher sea levels. An awful lot of effort for something that isn't real.

Your ignorance about boats continues. We are slow because the boat cannot go fast. Hull speed. Look it up.

August 24, 2013 at 4:23 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

Plain Truth, I have no idea. I made no claims on this thread, and rick seems clueless, not only about boats but in his ability to read the content of posts. Ignorance is okay. Ignorance uncorrected in the face of information is not.

I am happy to discuss the specifics of the science but I am not sure rick is ready for that deep a conversation.

August 24, 2013 at 4:26 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

lu, as you know, I like to keep things friendly here with mi amigos and amigetts

August 24, 2013 at 4:45 p.m.
rick1 said...

Ike I'm sorry that you took my posts as personal attacks. I do at times let my emotions take control and there are times I should step back, which I should have done today.

I would like to address a couple of issues in your last post. Your comment where you stated "Your ignorance about boats continues. We are slow because the boat cannot go fast. Hull speed. Look it up." I have to disagree with this since in all of the other posts you made to me last night and today not once did you mention about wake speed or that you were traveling in no wake zones all of the time.

In regards to climate changes and governments I believe governments want to use climate change as a reason to control our lives, increase more regulations on businesses and impose higher taxes.

Our own government has dictated which type of toilet we can flush in our homes, they offer us rebates to purchase the type of appliances they want us to use, they are forcing use to buy CFL lights, which contain mercury and the EPA has issued a guide that contains 10 steps to follow in cleaning up broken CFL lights. We have an Federal EPA agency that is strangling businesses and the gas and coal industry. I'm for regulation and I'm sure most people are for clean air and water but when the EPA is making it so difficult for they industries to operate under strict regulations that would do very little if nothing to reduce green house gas we all suffer through increase prices and higher unemployment. Obama said under his administration electricity rates would increase. I believe I saw where TVA was granted a rate increase.

Again I'm sorry you took my posts the wrong way and I hope we can have more civil discussions in the future.

http://www2.epa.gov/cfl/cleaning-broken-cfl

August 24, 2013 at 5:15 p.m.
fairmon said...

This subject has been recycled many times in this forum. Has anyone moved from their position held in the past few years?

August 24, 2013 at 7:09 p.m.
lkeithlu said...

I have to disagree with this since in all of the other posts you made to me last night and today not once did you mention about wake speed or that you were traveling in no wake zones all of the time.

All you had to do was ask. We travel offshore, not in no wake zones. 30 tons, steel hull, 140 hp. Diesel. Hull speed maximum 8 knots.

I don't think we as a country are capable of reducing our energy use. Our infrastructure is set up for semis and cars, not trains and ships. It is not set for living close to work. We do not have the desire to change our ways, and as long as energy is cheap, why should we? As a wealthy country we will find a way to get by; the poorer countries will suffer like they always have. I hate to be a fatalist, but we will not stop the rapid rise in average global temps or the rise in CO2. But it is happening and we are the cause. But the global population is too many, and we have to eat, work, and live.

I will not debate the merits of ending the use of coal in this country. I think you will find that if we had the will, we could replace coal with wind and solar in most of the US. Germany has replaced a huge amount of its nuke and fossil fuel with solar. Cloudy, cold Germany. No reason why we cannot. But we will continue to tear down mountains and inject much more mercury in the air from coal than we would from broken fluorescent lights because we are so sure all of this is a conspiracy between leftist liberals and an intrusive government to ruin the American way of life. Those that deny climate change can stick their fingers in their ears and close their eyes; the rest of the world is planning how to cope with rising sea levels and changes to agriculture. No one is really talking anymore about stopping or reversing it.

I will be happy to revert to civilized discussions in the future.

August 24, 2013 at 7:42 p.m.
tifosi said...

Coal mining is the nastiest operation of all. I have posted before about the massive amounts of oil being spilled during surface mining and how it is conveniently covered up during reclamation. The lack of maintenance is allowing thousands of gallons every month to leak into the earth. It is cheaper to just keep adding oil than to shut down the equipment and lose production. All coal operations should be required to use biodegradable lubricants.

August 24, 2013 at 8:32 p.m.
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